Today you did not, but two or three years ago you lived in Hendaia and worked in the Irun Reception Network. More than one migrant would have asked for help crossing the border from Irun to Hendaia.

I told them that I would help them to follow from Hendaia, but that I would not cross the border with them; I could be sentenced to jail. We explained to them how and what they could do to cross the border, and if the police grabbed them and returned to Irun, not to worry that almost everyone who has arrived at Irun has managed to cross the border sooner or later, except those who unfortunately drowned on the river. After all, nobody comes back, at least in the last part of this journey. The attitude of the French police is absurd, because it knows that they are going to happen in one way or another, so what is it to put so many obstacles?

So is it a farce?

It's a way of pressing. They have difficulties, but the one who has come here will never make the way on the other side, some have been on the road for years and have found many more obstacles ahead.

Does the Police return the arrested to Irun?

Yes, they get into the car and leave them in Behobia, or pass the bridge of Santiago, they get down in the roundabout of Ficoba, and they turn around the roundabout and return to Hendaia.

It is one thing to cross the border and another thing that once you are in Hendaia you can go ahead without being reached by the police.

If at night there is no police control, it will be easier to cross the border, but the police know that without light, without public transport, without knowing well the road… going ahead is very difficult, that they will spend the night there, and in the morning the gendarmes will start looking for them, aware that they have not been able to go far. The strategy of the Police at the time was that: to leave the border, perhaps, but to capture it in the area.

I was going to work at 5 a.m. from Hendaia to San Juan de Luz, so I could offer a lot of help to those who had just crossed the border at night. I got into the car, and if the police weren't on the roads, I drove them on safer roads, even on mountain roads, if I knew it could be the police. Many times, in Irun, he had agreed with the people who would cross the border, who would take them and take them to the other side; others, wanting to pass through Hendaia or collecting those he found adrift (remember one wounded, walking and dragging his leg), and took them to the San Juan train station (once also to Baiona), because what they wanted to do was to climb quickly and leave. If the Police were at Donibane, they would go a little further in the car, they would take advantage of the station tunnel to pass from one neighborhood to another, they would hide in the nearby parking lot, and they would run right when the train arrived.

On more than one occasion I have taken some people by car to Donibane and after returning to Hendaia, to look for others, because my head said “I cannot leave them here, they are in danger”. The same thing when I came back from my work: if I saw them drifting, I would get in the car and go back to San Juan, I would eat later. I ended up looking for them, like the police, but precisely with the goal of fighting what the police does.

And did they get into the car? Did you trust them?

It was, of course, difficult to convince. Along the way they have had to suffer lies, robberies, rapes… I also know the cases of fraud of those who have promised them to help them move from Irun to Hendaia: collect money in exchange for crossing the border, arrange a quote and not go out and search for them. How could they come with me? The attitude long ago, to speak sincerely and to explain first how I helped other migrants, to comment on what they can do so that the police do not catch them… it gave them confidence. In some cases, everything had to be addressed, not knowing very well where to go, they would think “if we are lucky and it is not fraud”. Some people told me that they would come and look for them, that they would wait for someone. Or it occurred to me that I found one partner and one wanted and the other didn't. They didn't fit all of them in the car, and they said, “Or everyone or nobody,” and make two trips, and to ensure that I went back to find others, leave my cell phone to those who were waiting. Not everyone has told me yes, of course they decide to get in the car that was in our hands.

Most, yes, were amazed that I accompanied them with the kiss. “But why are you doing this and you don’t want to collect anything?”

And why did he do it?

I felt the need to help those who really needed it, and I found it insensitive to see people in such a state and do nothing, as if I did not see a man drown in the sea and threw the arc of salvation. As elsewhere, a solidarity network was created in this part of the Bidasoa, and I was surrounded by people who play in a similar way. In addition, helping others makes you feel good, having helped gave me that point of pride, fueled my joy of life, my self-esteem. The gratitude you receive at your turn is a big thing, how your eyes glow.

Not so long ago, it was up to us to go into exile, and maybe in the future, to us, to our children or to our grandchildren, it would be up to us to go somewhere else, and I'd like someone to help me the same way, to find people who are going to try the same way, whether they're papers or not.

How many people have you helped?

I lived in Hendaia and worked in Donibane for a year and a half or two years, helped more than a hundred people and drove me in the car, more than sixty. Almost every day I could come to my help, every day there was someone walking, in the evening.

Over sixty people are a lot of memories.

On the road to the coast by car, when the sun rises at dawn… What scenery, what trips! They thanked God for the help they received, and I said to them, “God no, I pay for gasoline.”

One case I remember very well is that which I saw three women in Hendaia, in the area of Beltzenia, heading towards the local bus station. I told them to approach Donibane, and although they looked at me with mistrust, they finally got into the car. When they sat on their back, I saw one of the women who was wearing a newborn baby in the scarf that she was wearing on her chest. It is especially gratifying to help the people who are in these conditions. In addition, in Donibane, a police patrol was waiting at the station, because I took them in the car.

I've given some people the phone number, so if they were caught or had any problems, they'll call me. And then I got messages, "I've come to Germany!" and others, and I was excited, of course, proud to have helped.

Most had Paris as their destination.

Yes, and I was telling you that maybe it was not the best place, the reality is very crude in Paris and probably the chances of going ahead are lower than elsewhere. I asked them if they had someone to help them in Paris, if not that there are thousands of people living on the streets, maybe in smaller cities or in rural areas, who might have better job and life opportunities. But things are clear and it's normal, after a long journey, you see the goal very close and you want to get there. They also went to Belgium, Germany, Great Britain…

In one case you did help them cross the border.

A woman from Guinea Conakry came to Irun with two children. The mother didn't leave one of the tents that we had in the Plaza de San Juan, but the children did, they played in the plaza and we took them a affection. The woman suffered heavy violence from her husband, such as putting off cigarettes on her shoulder and breasts, and had to flee with two small daughters, leaving her two older sons in Guinea Conakry. The youngest daughter who accompanied him was 2-3 years old, and the oldest was 5. He asked us for help crossing the border, and unlike the previous occasions, seeing that the situation was very vulnerable and that returning to his country meant death, we decided to help us cross the border.

In the evening, I only crossed the border in one car, and the three left in another car along with two neighbours of Hendaia. He told me on the phone all the time, the road was clean. In Hendaia, they had dinner and spent the night in our house, and the next morning we did the same thing again, I before, they behind, until they took the train in San Juan de Luz. We salute them, heading to Paris.

You have maintained the relationship ever since. How have they gone?

The woman had contacted a Paris association that helped victims of male and undocumented violence, and the Reception Network received a message from the association: “They’ve come and they’re OK.” Personally, I have maintained a relationship with the woman, after all, both the night they spent at home and the help they received in Irun, a warm and welcoming refuge for a long time, a great love… and from time to time we sent messages to get to know each other: I know for example that the daughters were given a residence permit, but the mother, after a curious situation, the girls started going to school and now they have papers. They're fine.

The transfer of migrants from Hendaia to San Juan de Luz can also have consequences, right?

I had heard it said that there was no jail sentence across the border, but I was aware that there was a danger, that at least I would be taken to the police station if I caught migrants, and I always walked with caution, where I was going and where I was not, to avoid the police, especially because the people with the most serious consequences would bear them.

There are those who have ended several disputes over the assistance of migrants in Haiti.

Indeed, not cooperating should be a crime. As we are obliged to help or call an emergency in the presence of an injured person in a traffic accident or on the sidewalk, we should also do so in this case. And once in place, I would penalize those who punish for helping migrants.

What do you think of those who help cross the border?

I have always told the migrants not to do so, in one way or another, and with more or less difficulty, they will be able to cross the border, to be calm and not worthwhile, because they are often deliberately left at Hendaia station or close to where the police are, to return to Irun. After all, their aim is not to help, but money.

If you want to give him a hand to help, there will be those who receive it, but at least I have never thought it fair to collect money from those who have less to help. More than one of you wanted to give me money and I have always told you no.

The issue of migration goes from head to head. As it also brings political benefits, we hear speeches like “Those who come irregularly must be deported.”

In Madrid it is intended that by law the residence permit is automatically granted to the purchaser of a home of half a million or more euros. If it's rich, we don't care about coming from the outside, the problem is if the poor come. There are jobs that, under outrageous conditions and without any rights, cause less inconvenience. That is, that discourse is a hypocrite and that it is easy to buy those discourses, because they have created a very individualistic society, and we want to expel them from everything that can attack the quality of life of oneself.