You are working for “Stop JJOO”.

The most important moment for the project to stop is now, in the context of the survey announced by the Catalan Government on 24 July. In order to play it is necessary to sign a contract with the International Olympic Commission, which has a lot of power to do what it wants, so if we want to stop now it needs it. To this day we have deepened our arguments and have begun a process of territorial organization, beyond the Pyrenean valleys, to accumulate forces and face the Games campaign that comes before us.

Some of the project's promoters have opposed the completion of the questionnaire, as they may interfere in the candidacy. What is your position?

That the project must be rejected. In any event, the possibility of voting on it is an indispensable condition. And let the neighbours of the Pyrenees have at their disposal all the information about the project, for example the budget, and let them decide whether they prefer to allocate public money to that or something else.

If the yes prevailed in the questionnaire, what would your position be?

Keep fighting to stop the games. We believe that the Pyrenees deserve a better future than being the amusement park in Barcelona. We're going to fight for it, whether we make games or not. For us this moment is an opportunity: to unite the neighbours and the struggles of the Pyrenean valleys that have historically been very separate against a project and to use that strength to change things.

“If the games are not done here, there will be no money that would serve the benefit of the territory,” the supporters say.

We have heard few arguments in favour of games, but in general most say that basic investments are needed for the Pyrenees, which will materialise under the excuse of the Games. We believe that the organization of the Games or not is the construction of basic infrastructures. It becomes blackmail. They say that the games will double the train services, but without Game no? The infrastructures currently being built have a radial structure [placing Barcelona at the centre], but here the important thing is the Pyrenean axis: decades have not been renewed and the crossing of the Pyrenees from end to end takes a lot of hours. It is not intended to pass to the valley, but to climb as soon as possible from Barcelona. The road is the same as 50 years ago. We need infrastructures, but above all those that connect us at the Pyrenean level.

One of the arguments used for games is that they involve investments.

Our main problem is that we need a model change. The problem is not that we lack tourists, but that we do not have public transport to go to the people, that many people do not have a school or a doctor, that specialists are in Lleida or in Barcelona, that young people have to go outside to study, that livestock farming, which has historically played an important role in the management of forests, which is disappearing, etc. These problems are due to the fact that in recent decades investments are aimed at promoting tourism. I do not know when, but at some point they began to divide the territories by economic interests without taking into account local reality: some territories will be good for cultivation, others for speculation, or for energy. Tourism has touched us in the Pyrenees and has eaten the rest of the sectors, although here they could live and work. With seasonal flows in summer and winter it fills, but then empties. 53% of Pyrenees homes are second homes.

In the upper Pyrenees, the weight of tourism in the economy is four times higher than the Catalan average, but at the same time the per capita income is almost half. People say the Games will bring work and development...

The Pyrenees have a great wealth, natural, hydraulic, energy, agricultural, industrial... But for the benefit of tourism, it's destroyed because someone decided this was going to be an amusement park. The problems we have now are the result of that model. We have heard everything and that the Games will serve to diversify the economy. It looks like a joke, but they say that. The influence of certain games, over and above infrastructure and investment, is the promotion of a territory and, therefore, the profitability of the tourism sector, even if it is only a fascination. Some of the most deep-rooted tourist services in the territory are also opposed to the Games, because for an event like this one we have to increase the hotel plazas, and that will not be done by the local people, but by the investment funds or the large tourist companies, which will then remain here. They will build infrastructure with the flexibility offered by the Games and then they will play the part of the cake when the number of tourists does not increase.

What should be the investment for?

One-third of the investments in the Pyrenees are directed at ski resorts, which have significant losses, although they allegedly have a positive effect on the territory. Are we prepared to take on the losses of any strategic company in a way similar to that of the demand sector? We don't have magic recipes. The platform tries to achieve the pride of the Pyrenean population to claim here that we want a different life. Boosting the primary and secondary sectors is key to stable and quality work. On the other hand, as regards public services, depopulation is a fact, mountain villages are being emptied. If there is no school because there is no family with children, or if the doctor also stops going once a week, the people will slowly be emptied and people will only come on weekends. How can we revolutionize this trend? How can we diversify the economy according to the needs we have here?

Who is pushing for the Winter Olympics?

Behind it is the high Catalan bourgeoisie. Well, Catalan... It does not have a Catalan nationalist matrix, but Spanish, but it is historically here; among others, Foment de treball, Equestrian Circle, touristic lobbies… Those are the ones who put the pot to cook, putting the Games on the agenda and pushing, driven by economic interests.

Games generate a great economic movement, especially from public to private pockets. The protection of the environment and urban planning entail special legislation that violates the limits generated and can be built above what can be built on the excuse of the Games under normal conditions. There are speculative interests: putting money to make the most profit. All the millions that will be put in will be rewarded by someone who is preparing the candidature. And on the other hand, behind, there are political interests.

Why have the Olympic Games been criticised as Spanish projects?

Games are now a mechanism for deactivating independence to bury the national conflict. On the one hand, the Games are a golden opportunity for the state, with the excuse of sport to boost Spanish nationalism, including the Pyrenees, where there is little Spaniards. On the other hand, mention should be made of the laundering of certain games in the eyes of the world. For example, the 1992 Olympic Games meant opening up the world, "we are a modern state," "we have left Franco behind," etc. Externally, the State expanded the image of the united nation. But at the same time they did the largest operation ever against Catalan independence: 40 detainees and tortured. It was a few weeks before the games started and they used the Games screen to hide the operation internationally.

The Government of Catalonia is dependent on the ERC. Why do you think the candidature is being pushed forward?

I would say that Esquerra has no interest in this. On many issues it is drifting, and this is one of them. It moves between the pressure exerted by economic powers and their political project, and it does not have a very clear position. The interrogation responds to that, its way is not to commit itself too much for or against: for the people to decide. And on the other hand, within their co-government, Junts per Catalunya, most of them are betting on the Games, partly on the connections historically with the employers and the economic groups.

Several studies indicate that most Pyrenean ski resorts will be unviable in a few years due to weather conditions, even with artificial snow.

There is a point of contempt or indifference to science and evidence. The other day the Stop JJOO platform held meetings with the political groups in Parliament and a member of the Junts per Catalunya said that for the snow to end we should give it a big greeting. It looks like a fluttering, but action has been taken in a similar way to the El Prat airport expansion project. The forecasts indicate that the sea level is rising and that the area where the runway is to be built will be flooded, so one member of the area said that the investment in the submarine has already recovered. They are economic investments, and if they yield benefits, they are worth it. If the snow-centred model runs out in 2040, by 2030 we will use the Games, we will get maximum profits and close in 2040 with full pockets. That is more or less your point of view. It is a business that is slowly ending, and instead of thinking about how we are going to build an alternative in a progressive and transitory way, because it is the most logical thing from a Pyrenean point of view, decisions are made from the point of view of the investor.