The whole CUP came by surprise in the Spanish Congress two years ago. As an anti-capitalist and pro-independence party, what did they push Madrid? After the
first unsuccessful investiture and amid protests against the sentencing of independence prisoners, we decided to present ourselves for the first time to the Spanish elections. On the one hand, as a result of the repression, we clearly saw the importance of the independence left occupying all political spaces. The role of Bertzalde, ERC and Junts per Catalunya did not represent what the Catalan people needed. In this context, we decided urgently and unexpectedly to submit the Spanish candidacy.

Are you satisfied with the decision?
Yes, because the CUP has promoted the pro-independence, anti-capitalist, feminist and left-wing ecologist voice that so far had not been in Congress. We have often been left alone, but I believe that our contribution has been important. Unfortunately, the Congress of Deputies has an increasing media impact, due to its growing competition. Madrid is absorbent. Therefore, despite the fact that our sovereign parliament is Catalan, Valencian and the Balearic Islands, its presence in Madrid has given us visibility, as well as the possibility of extending to the four winds the voice that had hitherto been silenced in Spain.

He jumped from Parliament to Congress. How did it go? As
for the day to day, it's been hard. The presence of the right tip must be added to the harshness of the congress. And if that were not enough, the global pandemic began the legislature and suddenly came to us; while all of Spain was closed, we came to Madrid. But I was also pleased to be a representative of a voice that so far had no place. Therefore, although daily life has been hard, the experience is satisfactory.

What do you think about the government of Pedro Sánchez?There
is great disappointment with what this legislature might be. He came to Madrid with the intention of perfecting the CUP regime and being ungovernable. The government of the PSOE and the United Nations We can offer some loopholes to achieve that goal, but unfortunately it has not. In all the basic aspects of the State, progressive government policies have been right-wing.

For example?
From an economic point of view, in the management of European funds, in the absence of high income rates, in the treasury, in the lack of work for a progressive tax system, among others. And on internal issues I would highlight the rejection of immigration policies or the debate of the Mordaza Law, or the delay of the labor reform that will achieve nothing… The records of the regulation of temporary employment (TEU) or of Minimum Housing Income have been scarce measures, they do not arrive and, therefore, do not meet the objective. And if that were not enough, the systematic refusal to criticize the monarchy and open the door to the self-determination of rights predominates. Pedro Sánchez began the legislature by announcing his commitment to the de-judicialization of the Catalan conflict, which has not happened. There has been no political solution to the conflict and Sanchez’s government has used the Mordaza Law more than the previous ones.

Do you think there was a better alternative than the government of the PSOE and the United Nations of Podemos?
To form a government?

Yes.
No, the numbers are what they are and the choice was OK. However, a more favorable alternative could be built through concrete public policies. And the problem is that the PSOE and Podemos always defend a mantra; if the stability of this government is lost, they will govern the extreme right and the right. That's a trap. When the PSOE points to the right tip, because it is located directly to the left, but without promoting leftist policies. So the message it sends to society is that the government of progress doesn't make progressive policies, or it does them with the dropper without solving people's problems.

The CUP travelled to Madrid, among other things, to block the Spanish Government. The direction of your vote in the Chamber often coincides with the VOX or the PP. Do you feel uncomfortable?
No, because the CUP, unlike the VOX, when it votes it does so with a radically left-wing political position. For example, we voted against the investiture of Pedro Sánchez, such as the VOX. We made it clear to the President that if he advocated transformative policies in the future, if we were to direct our vote, we would do so. But this has not happened. And, on the other hand, the PSOE has sometimes voted together with the VOX, for example, in approving European funds, so no one has said anything. The CUP analyzes the situation and votes without further ado for its political approaches.

They voted against the investiture of Sánchez. On the other hand, in Catalonia they supported Pere Aragones, although on their lists there has been a xenophobic attitude, Joan Canadell. Why? Because we in the
Parliament of Catalonia reached an agreement with the ERC, and then join Junts per Catalunya. Our challenge was to turn our country to the left. And in that agreement we made it clear that if in six months' time the agreement is not complied with, we are not going to support the budgets. In Madrid we have another perspective. In short, the Parliament of Catalonia and the Generalitat are for us the chambers to protect, because the Supreme Court and the Government of Spain have systematically spent them. To Madrid, on the other hand, we did not come to build anything, we are in Madrid, among other things, to denounce the structures of the regime, the monarchy, the army or corruption.

EH Bildu, together with ERC, made the government of Sánchez possible. What is your view of the role you are playing in Madrid?
We do a different analysis of the relationship we have to have with the government of the PSOE and the PU. EH Bildu and ERC understand that ensuring the stability of this government is a way of enabling positive public policies for both the Basque Country and Catalonia, while we believe that, after these two years of legislature, stabilizing the government of the PSOE is to rub itself. Because making covenants with the PSOE is of no use.

Pedro Sánchez dealt with the pardons.
And we were glad that people could get out of jail, that was important, because there was so much suffering. But the most lenient thing has not been a political solution, they have solved the situation of nine people, but there are still four thousand reprisals. The political solution is the Amnesty Act.

The chairman of the Confederal United States Parliamentary Group Podemos, Jaume Asens, said at ARGIA that there is currently no correlation of forces to carry out the Amnesty Act.
Of course, because the PSOE is unwilling. But it is known that force correlations are worked out. And, in our opinion, the important thing is to raise political challenges, to be able to dialogue with amnesty and to inform citizens of the existence of feasible political solutions. And that, apart from that, it is important to form broad majorities. I do not believe that the allegation of the correlation of forces benefits us very much.

At the moment, Pedro Sánchez has been the first president to sit at the dialogue table with Catalonia.
Yes, the problem is that the only one that has the dialogue on the table is the name: there is no level playing field, because the conditions are laid down by the Spanish Government, they are putting limits on the conclusions and the constitutional borders cannot be crossed. The PSOE therefore continues to pulse the gap between legality and legitimacy. The Spanish Constitution is having an enormous weight on the dialogue table and we know that ERC is clear about it, but they want to leave the cycle to an end.

How would the CUP manage the dialogue table?To begin
with, the dialogue table cannot be a political party table, it should be a forum for dialogue between the two countries and the referee should be neutral. We must force the Spanish Government to sit down and negotiate, and to do so it is essential to work with the international community. Is it a laborious project? Yes, of course. But we did it four years ago and it is surely so utopian or less than democratically reforming Spain. This is certainly the best government that Spain can have; for, if this is the best government that Spain can have, independence is a matter of democratic survival. In the Catalan countries, in the Basque Country and anywhere.

It is two years before the end of the parliamentary term. Do you see the possibility of decentralising the Spanish State?
There is no political will. The PSOE is inherent to being one of the pillars of the regime. So, it's not a matter of trust or faith. The PSOE does not want to work in this direction and has major internal conflicts along its lines. I see no possibility, unfortunately.

What is the challenge of the CUP from now on?
We have a fundamental role in this second half of the legislature, because it is also a legislature of the Parliament of Catalonia. We are an independent left and therefore we have to be counter-points to ERC policy and these two years should serve us to create a shared roadmap. Not only independence, but all democratic forces. The Supreme’s ruling against linguistic immersion has shown that the key lies in the formation of democratic majorities. Self-determination also has to do with collective rights, beyond changing the country’s flag.