A week later, do you feel more champion?
Yeah, I've started to believe. Before I was in the clouds, more lost, but I think I've assimilated it. Unfortunately, we sometimes realize things when we see ourselves from an external perspective. I think, having seen the echo, or when I've received the feedback, I've authorized myself in some way, and I've thought: “Well, I’ve won, I’m no more than anyone, but I’m no less than anyone.”

And more bertsolaris?
I used to feel, but it is true that in the last two years I have worked a lot. On the one hand, the Bertsolaris Ahalduntze School and, on the other, the Bertsos School in my area, the County of Pamplona, has influenced this. I've recognized myself. “I am bertsolari.” Maybe it's sad that you have to pick up a hat to prove it, but I think I also felt bertsolari, I was comfortable in the championship and I would feel a bad finish. I'm happy with the road, I've felt creative in the championship.

It has taken almost 20 years to do so.
Yes. I started at age 12, but at first as a very fun game. Bertsolari has been an archetype, of a determined linguistic environment, in form, body and thought. We get a model, and it's been hard to find myself there, I haven't found many models, in the last few years a lot more. And much closer to the bertso that I liked. I believe that the verse has historically been closely linked to rounded truths or categorical reasoning. There has been a big change: in the last General Championship, for example, it was seen that more contradictory characters were being sought. On the subjects, neither are things a or b, whites and blacks have more room. And I think as I've seen it, I've also been valued. Fortunately, today there are a thousand ways to be bertsolari. Ours is as legitimate as any other.

Why aren't you around you?
On the one hand, imagine: if in the championship we are about 30 bertsolaris, we women have been seven. On the other hand, in Navarre, those who sang in the final, have been very related to the very Basque area. I didn't feel native, even if I was Basque. I didn't see similar people, my best friends did, but those haven't come to the end, they haven't been in the fokupa. Being like Sarai Robles or Irati Majuelo in my environment has shown me that we too are a few and that it was possible. It's related to the place of residence, gender and also style. It's been hard for us, because the verse isn't what happens while you sing alone, it's the verse the conversations that exist before you go onstage and the relationships that arise after you go down. It's been hard for me to find myself in this ecosystem. I do not mean this from any victimization: I have never felt outside, I have good bertsolaris and I have felt very careful and dear. But I was missing those who seemed to me.

What influence does the body have on it?
Many times. We have positioned reason and body as two things that are absolutely dichotomous and contradictory. And yes, when you're acting you're doing an intellectual exercise, but there you're also a person: you can be nervous, sad, happy... It's a great psychological job, because when you occupy the public space, you become manifest. And to that exhibition, depending on who you are and who you are, you don't get the same: it's not the same thing to be a rich heterosexual man as having a thousand other categories.

A type of voice has also been associated with the bertsolari archetype. Loud, strong voice, without praying. How did you experience that?
I'm not especially a person with a good ear, I don't tune especially good, I don't capture melodies immediately. If you have a good voice, you also take into account the presence. But what is having a good voice? Who do they value? It has cost me personally, and in other times I have had more complexes. But I've worked, and I've done an exercise in empowerment. As it is an act of communication, the voice is very important, but it can be useful more than one voice. That's where I've authorized myself. On the other hand, I work: it happens to me at bertsos school with the new melodies; I recognize that I'm not going to master that melody the same day, but I'm going to spend a week listening. Don't resign me. The voice is closely related to self-perception and safety: more and more nervous, more closed, more insecurity is noticeable. Sometimes it's not so much her voice, but her position with respect to her.

In the three previous championships, you stayed at the door of the final. Were you tempted to give in on the way of the tournament?
In truth, I'm doing very well, it's my biggest hobby. In the championships I have not achieved brilliant results, but it has given me verses to some of the best friends of life, to large spaces of socialization, to a lot of reflections, to a job… It has satisfied me from a thousand other places. In the previous championship, I realized that I was at a good level of bertsos, perhaps more nervous, but I wanted to change something. And when it came to an end, I got a lot of fatigue. I think the verse is over-matched with sport: it seems that at certain times, especially in youth, you have to hit, and if you don't give them, you get the train. I don't believe in that. I think we each get to where we arrive when we can, or when we've worked. I am very pleased that I have now come to where I have come, I think I am focused, wanting bertsos. It is always the time of creation, anyone can create at any time in life and will always be interesting. That's what I think about 200 percent. And I think that's also convinced that you also get a lot of strength.

What has been your motivation to move forward on the path of Bertsolarism?
I believe that the reason for moving forward has been group creation. For me, Bertsolarism is understanding creation from collectivity and horizontality, knowing that anyone can give you something. That co-creation seems to me to be magical. And personally, the bertso is my greatest moment of abstraction. When you're talking about bertsos, your biggest problem, desire and desire takes place there. I really enjoy that ego, my biggest problem, is finding words that are over. That abstracts me from everything else, helps me land. Other people will do mindfulness or yoga. That makes me anxious. Bertsolarism, on the other hand, helps me to live the moment.

In those three finals that had remained on the portals, precisely, there were no women. Have you felt any weight that not only substitutes you, but also women?
No, I have not taken it into account. A lot of people have told me. “How good, a woman at the end. And I say: “Yes, and seven men.” And these seven men are not highlighted as men. Of course, I understand that we are few, that something needs to be done so that we are more and there is as much diversity as possible, but I have not assumed that pressure. If not, as a creator, that label would mark me more than I do, I couldn't create it freely. Furthermore, it is not so much that women are missing, but why we are 20% in the championship, why there are bertsos schools made up exclusively of men, what happens in the bertsos system for this to happen. Being one in the end does not change anything, a radical change is needed.

And in the plaza, have you ever felt that you had the quota?
Also with more things: I have fulfilled the quota of the Navarro, of the woman... It is complicated because we want diversity to be reflected in the sessions, but at the same time we do not want to have a quota. But I understand that they also call others because they are young, or because they have sung, let's say, about the Basque, and then they call them for an act around the Basque. Bertsolari is marked with labels that the organizers work with. I wish it was called as a creator, but the world may not work that way. What we can't always do is think they call us for a fee: they also call you because it's you. That cannot be a burden that we take on the back.

Can the hat release you from these labels? Or set another one?
I don't want the beret to have a floor. Some have asked me if I feel “the responsibility of the champion.” I don't feel very upset. Everyone has to decide their way, there is no way of champion. What is being a champion? There are bertsokeras, bertsolaris, plazas, places… I don’t know if the txapela will release me from the labels. It's one more tag. “Champion.” I'd like you to get out of all of these labels working as a group, rethinking things with the team members, and make a way with myself. I have a lot to improve.

What is your bertsolaritza like? You talked about looking at the fundamental issues of the issues…
I don’t know if I have a certain bertsoform. But it's true that things that are very categorical, round and redundant don't interest me, I try to escape those Potomy terms. That doesn't mean that at the moment I don't throw a vulgarity. But I hear the subject and I try to make the verse as real as possible. I think that heroism connected more in a while, but at one point I became populist. As a creator, I find it interesting to hear one thing and think about how to take it to contradictions. To get into great waters when it is necessary, but if it is not necessary, do not make dramas of oath.

In his work, the intention to add a political discourse is also appreciated.
It's not that I look for myself. But everything has a political construct behind it. I'm not so surprised by the bertsos technique. I like it, but I get a lot more of the message. I have worked a lot in the last few years on the technique, but above all to make the technique a tool for the message to arrive.

He talked about edges and corners in his last greeting. Are you a border?
I am a privileged in many things and very conscious. Power sometimes places us on the periphery and others on the hegemony. We must be aware of where we sing, with what and for what purpose, and where we use power or oppression. Therefore, I would not say that I am a border. I would say that I am in some categories that have not been seen in bertsos, but I do not feel at all marginal. I wanted to take this greeting to show you some things that aren't usually shown, whether it's the LGTBIQ+ movement or the children of Castilian parishioners. But being aware that we also have a lot of privilege: most of us who are there are people from a certain cultural capital, with studies, with whites, with papers.

The other day I was talking about the article Beltzak, published by Ane Labaka in Berria, about chanting by mouths of bodies and identities that are not on the stage.
I believe that this is one of the great debates that Bertsolarism has today: what to sing and where. After the end of Xilaba a lot was said: three people took the role of migrants and two of transsexuals. If there are no racist people on the bertso, is it legitimate for us to sing for their mouths? But of course, is it possible to sing through the mouth of a precarious old woman from the gas station? Where is the limit of fiction? What fiction can we do and for what purpose? Do we want to be effective and then take an increasingly oppressed character? It is a matter of great doubt to me.

Is Pamplona the arista?
No. I believe that the Basques who live in more Euskaldunes exotize us, but for me it is a very stimulating place, and the Basques live normally in the County of Pamplona. The laws deny us the place, deny us the rights, no doubt that. But the edge usually puts it in the hegemony. We are not an anecdote for anyone, or Basques who have to be treated for paternity. We live in Basque with total normality, with a conscious political option, and in resistance, in the face of linguistic cutbacks that want to crush us. But it's not a border at all.

“You do well the Basque to
be from Pamplona.” That too has been mentioned many times in verses. And when I say I'm from Pamplona, they start looking for ancestors. I have my whole family with Castilian, except my brothers. I believe that this scheme of Euskaldunberris does not respond to the current reality of the Basques. Today we Basques are a thousand classes, and I think it's time to rethink that, if we're not in an obsolete scheme, and all we do is caricaturize it.

Quoting his Castilian children, he referred to a special type of transmission. Many parents have given us what was not in fact theirs, or they did not.
Yes, and many, knowing that there is something that everyone could not pick up in their day: “What I refuse is what I want to convey to you.” And all this in a highly politicized way, knowing the situation of the Basque Country in Navarre, and it is no coincidence that the use has been lost. Much work has been done here to euskaldunify the next generations, and to euskaldunify the adults themselves, to become literate. Some people tell me: “You are the daughter of the Castilian speakers and…”. No, I and all my friends. It's not uncommon.

You are a professor of bertsos. The Bertsozale Association often mentions that the verse is not a destiny in itself, but can also be a means for the Basque people. You see it?
Yes. I believe that Bertsolarism gives you a level of awareness about the Basque Country and the Basque Country, which has given me nothing more. It has been a great way to have popular awareness, and not only that, but also to get to know dialects, words, expressions, peoples. I am not surprised to go to the towns of Euskal Herria, I do not feel the border. I'm not afraid to take the car and I don't know where to go, I feel like I'm going to be at home in Euskal Herria. And I think the awareness of this has been given to me by the bertso.