When did she learn Basque?
When I came to Pamplona to do teaching studies. The then Provincial Council of Navarra offered teachers the opportunity to learn Basque for free and then I was in several Euskaltegis. At that time, I also changed my name.

I started working on model A, where we applied the AEK system, the communicative method, for children to learn Basque.

Then I went to Berriozar and until I retired I've been there teaching ESO's Natural Sciences and, above all, Mathematics. For me, it was important to live where I was teaching, like the teachers of the people of all time, and that's why I live in Berriozar. For me, the relationship with the students has always been more important than the subjects.

What was the use of abacus in class for?
Abacus is a simple way to solve the equations. I adapted my own system and the students said it helped them as a means, especially for students with difficulties.

Are mathematics difficult?
Not for me. In general, I think they are taught wrong. You have to play and play more and not just write on the board the longest possible formulas. Mathematics is now very important and the basis of many things. To create models, in computer science -- they're used in a thousand things. For me, the problems are very interesting. When a problem is a problem and you have to use your head to find a solution, that's the problem. Finding a solution to this is a pleasure, but very little work is done in classrooms. Empty exercises are done, in which no process needs to be done, apply the formula and point.

Geometry and probability are the themes that always appear in the book and often run out of time, no matter how nice they may be. If you fall in love with math, it's forever.

You're passionate about challenges. So has he always been in social movements?
Yes. I haven't been in politics because I don't like the environment there is. I ask the policy to look at how to integrate and merge those who think differently, but today that is not being done. Doing what most people think is not democracy, but "the most ocracy," and I'm not interested in that. I prefer the system of socicracy, because it is a horizontal decision-making process. This has to do with, for example, cohousing. Responsibilities are shared and the aim is not to oppose what others are proposing. If you do not agree, do not, but let others do. Don't bother others. This is more interesting than most democracy. In short, what is 51% for? What happens to the other 49%?

Is my attitude spreading with me or against me?
This dynamic is terrible and I hate it. Fidelity is due to ideas not to people.

When and how did he start militancy?At the
Association of Neighbors and Parish of Berriozar. I was very comfortable in catechesis groups.

Are you a believer?
I don't know if I am or was. I've been through a process, and some people tell me that what I'm following now is not Christianity, but Buddhism. I don't know what it is. I am, nothing else. Tagging is dangerous. What matters is spirituality, interiority. Religions are just instruments. If they bring us well into spirituality, but I don't want to know anything with punishments and sins. In school, the interiority should also be worked out. The Church assumes the concept of spirituality, but it belongs to all people. Proof of this is that we found some identical ideas in different religions.

Today the group of people seeking spirituality in Pamplona is expanding. That attracts me. What to do to achieve a better society, that's the goal, and the basis for that is the economy. That is why I am in the Attac Group, for example, which claims global economic justice. Because it's worth working for a fairer world.

And how is the situation today in general?
Bad. The model of society is very important, but without forgetting that this is intimately linked to the model of person. In the 15 May movement, for example, we wanted to change the world, but without changing ourselves and that is impossible.
From an ecological point of view, the world cannot go on like this. The law of capitalism is getting bigger and bigger, but it's impossible to go down that road, because the world doesn't give more. We should be clear about what our real obligations are and not be linked to earning so much money. Is it an obligation to travel to the other end of the world, for example the Bardenas, without knowing them?

Lately they are cheating on the money that comes from Europe. One example: they want to drive the electric car, but what we have to push for is quality, affordable public transport for everyone. The consumption dynamic is entering the supposedly green, and so we can't have a future. When we see the green label, we do not criticise anything. The only thing we have learned with the pandemic is to stay at home for a while, but then there will be other major problems. The bad thing is that we don't want to learn, and that's what happens because we don't work on spirituality.

At present the greatest problems are the environment, women and immigrants. There are, however, too many groups doing things and not in the same direction. All of us who want to change the world should come together, agreeing on minimum standards.

What do you think of managing the pandemic?It has been clearly seen
that they take us where they want. The big media is not very critical. Pandemia demonstrates what exists, for example, in nursing homes. The nursing home is an old port and I do not know anyone who wants to live there, but they accept it because they have no choice. That's why collaborative housing is very important.

Why is this coexistence model better?
Because you know you have a network around you, people who care about you and are willing to help you. You don't feel lonely, and that's really important.

Loneliness is a consequence of this social organization. We're isolating people in their homes and loneliness kills us. This situation makes more and more people come to the doctor, priest or psychologist.

How many projects do the Koobizitza network make up?
Now there are fifteen: Riojalar and La Vereda in La Rioja, Circle Solidario and Abaraska in San Sebastian, Txinalka and Bizikoopon in Vitoria, Sunrise in Bilbao, Ametxe Gordexola and seven more in Navarra. The eco-villages Arterra Bizi and Amarauna de Ziordia, in the village of Artieda, are the only initiatives underway and do not belong to the elderly. That seems to me to be nice. I think it is important to see that it is not a project for the future, something for the old.

Here are two projects in Pamplona aimed at the elderly: Etxekonak Bat and Etxekide. They are highly developed economically, socially and architecturally, but municipal involvement is lacking.

Other projects in development are Biziabi in Pamplona, for young people and families, Irizar in Lumbier and Cohousing Rivera Navarra in Tudela. However, due to the new phenomenon, laws are not adapted. They do not know where to stand, and that is why the administration says good words, but progress is very limited.

What is the difference between a life project and a community people like Lakabe?The philosophy
of cohousing is not the common one. In our case, each one has the opportunity to have autonomy to the extent that he or she desires it or to cooperate in different areas and activities. You're in your house and you put whatever you want in common. We believe that we take the best of both models: relationship and mutual care is what we drive. To do this, and in order to avoid problems of coexistence, it is necessary to define from the outset what each person is willing to do and, at the same time, to establish minimum requirements.

Subsequently, the initially set limits may be exceeded or modified, but a minimum should be set. On the other hand, we cannot be a Taliban. In San Sebastian, a community disappeared because it had discrepancies about the washing machine, some wanted a common one and others theirs.

Obligations must also be clearly defined. When we talk about them, we're talking about everyday things, about reading with someone the newspaper every day, about bringing drugs or sharing meals, for example. It is clear that specialized care must be performed by professionals and that we can all need it at any time.

Is the supervised apartment the same?
Although from the outside it looks similar, the supervised apartments and cohousing are not the same. In the first, a company that wants to earn money decides and organizes activities to residents. We, on the other hand, demand self-management and mutual support in our communities. Now it's very fashionable, but anything isn't cohousing.

How is the issue in Europe?
In Denmark, France, Sweden… there are very interesting projects. However, the societies in these places are very different from ours. In northern Europe, the State is responsible for all units. Coexistence models must be adapted, they cannot be simply copied.

How are the Etxekonak and Etxekide, the cooperatives they are promoting in Pamplona?
We have prepared architectural, economic and social projects. At the last meeting prior to the dissolution of the City Hall of the last legislature, all groups unanimously agreed to approve groups of four floors for such initiatives. However, it goes very slowly, because they do not give it priority. It's extending a lot. In the government, although some are very favourable, no progress is made either.

What is the formula, which the City Hall gives to you?
We ask for the right to use a site. The City Hall leaves a plot for 50 years and after that time returns the plot and everything built on it, and so the City Hall does not lose anything.

Users will not be homeowners. The owner is always cooperative and the users are people. We want to guarantee people the right to live in a home, not the right to a home. With these houses, one cannot speculate or inherit their descendants. This is essential in order to maintain our philosophy.

That's what we want, but we're thinking maybe it's faster to buy, because we're already tired and tired. It will be more expensive and some will be left out, but it may be the fastest solution.

Have you thought about going to a village?
It could be, but in the surveys carried out among us people say that they want to live in Pamplona, because there are more services and more cultural offer.

For the Administration, this coexistence model is also good, right?
Of course. It's much cheaper than nursing homes. Private homes are not an appropriate solution, just because their intention is to make money. And we've seen this very clearly during the pandemic.

Why are you here?
Because it fulfils our obligations and we want to continue with the kind of life we have had so far. Relationships give you wealth and being able to share our capacities is a treasure. Now a group of mountains have been recovered within the cohousing, for example.

We want to create new relationships and regain good treatment by neighbours and neighbours. Today, these relations are broken, especially in urban areas. A neighbor on my floor died and I didn't know until I spent a year. We need peace of mind, going out in the street to refresh ourselves and be quiet with the neighbors.

* * * * * * * * * * *

AFTER “In the
Etxekonak group we are people between 50 and 70 years old. Now the Government of Navarre asks that at least half of them be over 65 years of age to be considered projects of social interest. But I disagree. What is being old? Being retired? In Europe at the age of 55 they are considered old in some general projects sociales.En, at the age of 60-65 we are still young, but these types of projects have to be promoted at that age, not when they are 80 years old and no longer have strength and capacity. If this proposal of coexistence is good, it will be good for people of 40, 60 or any age.”