How did he start his political career?At the age
of 14, I began to get to know the Communist ideas at the Alfaro Institute and soon went to them. I repeated the Third High School Course because I spent a lot of time doing newspapers, radio shows and preparing strikes. After the end of the COU, I volunteered to do military service with the Red Cross. I could have made any intransigence or objection, but at home the situation was complicated. I grew up with my grandfather and my grandfather had just died, so I thought it was the best way to continue studying or start working. I set at the institute my two most permanent convictions that I've ever changed: being communist and amateur athletic.

At 17, I joined CCOO. Then in the Communist Party of the Basque Country and in the United Left of Navarre. In 1991 I was a councillor in Castejón, in my village, until 1995, and from that year until I resigned in 1997 I was a parliamentarian. In 1999, I also left Ezker Batua. That's where my party career ends, because politics will never end, because I continue to do politics in Subai Erakuntza, in the neighborhood association or in the parent association.

Why are you a communist?
Maybe because I was a Christian before. I am a communist because of the worldview of this ideology, which in the last two centuries has meant a lot of progress at all levels. Here or all of us will be saved or no one. The class must be the center of our thinking, with an internationalist and supportive vision. In the absence of transformative movements such as communism, feminism or environmentalism, that place will be occupied by fascist ideologies. This is one of the most serious problems today.

He was the first communist parliamentarian in Navarre. Why did he resign?
For political reasons. I swore the office as a legal imperative, as a Republican and as a Basque, even if I do not know Euskera. And I did it with a t-shirt against the Itoiz reservoir. At Ezker Batua we were five and this didn't like everyone. Among us, on the other hand, we did not agree on the programme and on the budgets.

At first, he only paid diets, unlike other party mates. I think they wanted to force my resignation. After a while I got a payroll, but at five months, in 1997, I resigned when Floren Aoiz and Adolfo Araiz were imprisoned, because we were in favour of dialogue and negotiation on the issue of the Basque conflict. Peace is achieved not only when weapons are left, but when justice is done.

From 1997 to 1999, I was in the direction of the United Left and the Federal State Commission, but because of discrepancies, in December 1999, 100 people left the Communist Party of the Basque Country and went home.

How did the Subai Foundation come about?
Stop the TAV! The entrepreneurs on the move or in the fight against the Ribera power plants joined us because we believed that an instrument was needed to provide legal and technical support to small local entities and social groups.
All procedures are prolonged for years and the popular opposition needs the help of this apparatus of technical legal muscle so that these fights do not interrupt. To this end, Subai Erakuntza was established in 2009.

How does it work?
We're a foundation. We have seven members in the board and we have no salary or money for expenses. We recruit the necessary legal and technical services for specific matters. That is why we need the economic contributions of the roots. At present we have about 90 members and as a Public Utility Entity they are returned 25% of what was provided in the income statement. We also have some simple cooperation agreements with some local entities, but the key is what people put in. It's best to have about 500 roots.

What is green capitalism?
A lie. Capitalism cannot be green if we understand green as an alternative to the production and consumption model that we have now. It's like asking a lion to be vegetarian.
This concept is simply marketing. Capitalism needs sustained growth. Sustainable development is also impossible within capitalism.

All of this leads us to promote models that serve the interests of big corporations, and that is what we are now seeing in the European Union, for example, with the Next Generation funds or with the treatment being given to the pandemic. COVID-19 is actually a synonym, that is, a socio-political-economic problem rather than a health issue. Green capitalism is thinking that with renewables and electric cars, everything gets fixed, and that's not the case.

And what's the solution?
Revolutionary action is needed. It is not just the problem of climate change, but the collapse of thought, values and equality relations between peoples. The solution cannot be to continue to waste natural resources in the third world and right here. Projects such as the Muga de Sangüesa mine or the Erdiz quarry are in the same line as the deforestation of the Amazon or the exploitation of coltan in the Congo. They don't kill people here yet, but they buy wills. They advertise on sports activities or subsidise various groups, for example. But the situation is very serious and the change of life and slowdown are indispensable. We have to consume less and distribute wealth and work. Collective, non-individual or elite solutions must be sought.

Do we want to believe what they tell us?
Yes, because they have been preparing the ground for many years and the shot has been the treatment being given to COVID-19. Beyond the disease, they are being used to promote repression and conductivism. The most dangerous thing is fear. Solutions are not quick or easy, but we can begin to lay the foundations. Perhaps COVID-19 is one of the most agile international crises in the coming decades, despite the suffering of millions of people. Collective and global fear is being organized, while people continue to die of hunger, repression, wars or other diseases. COVID-19 serves to cover everything. Capitalism continues with its roadmap and needs a greater concentration of resources. The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer, as Marx and Engels predicted in the 19th century.

All this must be turned around, because otherwise, in addition to the fascists in the elections, the collective thinking of the people will be extreme on the right. And that's already begun to happen.
To have the repression as normal is terrible. Proof of this is, for example, the departure of a military or a police officer to discuss health issues in press conferences.

We have to radically change our way of life. Boost the social economy and focus care as soon as possible, as the feminist and ecologist movement has long advocated.

What do you think about the behavior of leftist parties?The far right
is being made easier to talk about freedom when they have never believed in it. Along with this, red lines are not being put in place when signing budgets, such as the TAV project.

What opportunities did the change government have lost in Navarre?
A lot. To start with, they had to change the Basque Law and they didn't. They had the opportunity to suspend the educational program in English PAI, whose main objective is to fight against the spread of Euskera, and there also the street. They lost the opportunity to introduce new laws that would guarantee the democratic planning of environmental organisations. They did not shake hands on public debt and we continue to pay tolls to foreign companies and investment funds. The TAV didn't stop. Moreover, what they accepted was what they wanted PNV, UPN and PSN. In these four years more works were awarded than in the previous fifteen. They said it was a matter of Madrid, but the construction projects are done in Navarra. If they are not sent from here, they are not launched. We are committed to a Public and Social Train for Navarra as a means of sustainable, popular and democratic transport. It is essential that all heavy freight transport be transferred from lorries to trains, connecting people’s accommodation well. We presented it two years ago, but no one took it into account.

It was a matter of political will and the same was true of the Castejón thermal power stations. The parties that have always been against did nothing to stop them. Another lost option was that of the Navarre canal. They did not question if it is necessary because they did not study the irrigation model. It is not a question of removing the flow from the surface of the land and replacing it with underground pipes, but of changing the agricultural production model. Small farms and organic production must be prioritised legally so as not to continue to pollute all our aquifers and rivers with chemical fertilizers and to deal with destructive projects such as the Caparroso macro-vaqueria.

In the last legislature the Aroztegia project was the green light in the small town of Lekaroz to make hotel, golf course and 228 chalets. In addition to all this, the leadership of the parties of change demobilized some of their pillars, understanding that they were already in power. The government of change was serious, because what could be achieved in a few years now is going to cost a lot more, and more with all that COVID-19 has brought us.

Why is Subai promoting allegations against a large number of solar and wind turbine projects in Navarre?
A glass of wine is good, but not for one or two blows. At the moment, a total of 36 projects of major impact and scope. These are the projects that the Government of Navarra and the Government of the State have publicly presented in Navarra in recent times. But the total number will be much larger as the weeks and months go by. This is a tsunami, and the purpose of this flood is not to help solve the crisis, but to further fatten the pockets of some businesses and people.

The fundamental problem is that in Navarre only 21% of the total energy we consume is electricity. Renewables are a solution if the production model is changed and consumption is reduced. That is why we urge the Government of Navarre to paralyse all the projects under way. Because we believe it is necessary to open an appropriate process of reflection and planning around the energy model.

Any government that wants to have a compact and well-maintained society should be committed to nationalising the energy sector. Technology will not solve the problems and the solution will not continue to grow, even with renewable energies.

Why have you denounced that the Government of Navarra “beautifies” the recycling data?
The government recently said that 47% of the waste collected last year was prepared for reuse or recycling, but some processes cannot be considered as recycling.

The Navarre Waste Plan and the European Directives set the target of recycling 50% of waste, but the current waste management does not achieve this objective. Most households delegate much of the organic waste to private companies for biometering. This waste has not been recycled, and what is more, it produces toxic pollution through these treatments, which is very serious.

We propose reducing the amount of waste and implementing a genuine re-use policy. Only a model of distribution at source will ensure that the objectives set by European legislation are achieved. In this respect, what is being done in the Sakana Commonwealth is an example: door-to-door collection and public waste treatment. In organic they reach 80%. I live in Lakuntza and know how he is doing it.

In addition, small waste plants should be encouraged and compost used as close as possible. In the Region of Pamplona we have a great opportunity to fertilize all the growing fields of the area with the compost of the organic waste of the city. The solution is not to make giant plants, as they now want to do in Imarkoain, or incinerators. Waste management cannot be placed in private hands. In Italy waste management is controlled by the mafia. Here the mafia has other names, but those who control the business at state level are also mafia and are interested in producing more and more waste because they charge per tonne. Ecoembes, for example, charges for collecting containers and making new ones. Why are returnable packaging not produced, as when we were young or as is done in many parts of Germany?