You're working on the third season of La Casa de Papel. You are hiding and trying to avoid leaks. Has this influenced the way we work?

Not when it comes to recording. The team is the same, we know each other well and that gives us peace of mind. But on the other hand, now Netflix is the producer and their way of doing is different. They control times very well, when they advertise things and when not, promotion… It is being difficult, there are a lot of people waiting, and there are always leaks. We also have some more pressure. When we recorded the first two seasons, it was to do it on Antena 3, and it didn't have that much impact. Now we know that what we're doing will be seen by a lot of eyes around the world. When they tell you that in Saudi Arabia, in Turkey or in Brazil they are seeing massively what you have done…

Do you have time to do something else?

The truth is, no. It takes a lot of time and there is little time left for nothing else. I have been offered to work in a play, for example, but I have had to say no.

It has touched you to live inside this series boom, which most of us see from the outside. Suddenly millions of people around the world have news of you.

It's true. I live in Euskal Herria, as before, I have my relationships there… But what has changed is my presence in networks, for example: fan clubs and others. Also in your life you have to make room for that and learn how to manage it. People have also come to Euskal Herria to visit me. There is a girl from Buenos Aires who has started to learn Basque because she learned that I was Basque. I've had these kind of funny stories, and that's the nicest thing, but I've also been touched by some more ugly stories. The net has two mouths, like the knife. One very nice and the other darker. There are always crazy people who are willing to do everything. Unfortunately, I have also had to learn to live with that.

Why has La Casa de Papel been so successful?

A lot of factors have come together. On the one hand, it combines action with humor very well. Then, along with that, the characters are very special. They go beyond the stereotype: they are very human, they have weaknesses, as we all have. The way to count is also special, from camera movements to lighting, there is a special effort to create an aesthetics of its own. And it also has a point of social criticism, because the protagonist is a group that wants to deal with the economic system. I think it's been a mixture of all that.

It would be hard to imagine when you started working.

Yes, of course. For me, being at the gates of the Oscars with Loreak was great, I thought I would no longer live anything like that. But all of a sudden, I came across this, and the proposals have started to come in many places. However, the inclusion of Netflix in the program has been decisive and we were already aware of the capacity that these platforms have. I think it can also be an interesting route for Basque productions. It has happened, for example, with Handia and Errementari.

Another side of the "new" times is that on social media, the actors look at the success they have in deciding whether the producers take them at work or not.

Your profile or impact is reviewed. We also receive advertising offers on the basis of this. But that doesn't guarantee the success of a project. What guarantees is the story you choose, how it is told, if the conditions are good… The quality, in short. Your followers will approach the beginning, but if what you've done is not good, they won't resist it. We do too much on that side, but it can be very tricky. In our case, many actors were not known at all.

I think the world of work has changed a lot with this increase in the series, both for the actors and for those in the front line.

In the Spanish State as a whole, at least, there is much more chance of working than before. There are many platforms, the televisions always follow as well. The possibilities have multiplied. But, paradoxically, in Euskal Herria not. Since the end of Goenkale, Basque actors have had very few occasions to work on television.

If you'd had a lot of work here, wouldn't you have left?

I started working in Madrid when I was 40 years old. If I had been interested, I would have gone before doing the test. Here I've had a lot of work for a long time and I've been very comfortable. But of course, when you run out of work, you have to look for other options, and if you're not here, you're looking out for them. I was born in Madrid, and of course, I had to go. Yes, I've been very successful, but when you take that step, you don't know what's going to happen. It’s not easy: leaving home, changing the environment…

Its value to success abroad is often recognized. Has that been the case?

I've noticed that they now count on me for some things and that they didn't do it before. My face is now more visible. As for the work, I have been offered something else, but I have not noticed too much. I've been offered a site in a Basque film, but I've already worked with them before.

More and more Basque actors are working on Spanish productions. Many have been touched by the role of stereotyped Euskaldunes. You managed to escape.

Yes, we're getting more and more. When you have nothing else to choose from, you accept some things as they come. I too have been touched by such a small role, but in general, it is true that I have been very lucky. If I had been classified as a police officer, or as a doctor, a lawyer and a similar person. Still, I'm happy. I think I've been touched lately by polyhedral, interesting roles that go beyond stereotyping.

In the case of La Casa de Papel, Raquel Murillo is a strong and powerful woman, but she has felt unprotected when she has suffered gender violence.

She's a powerful woman, a police officer, she has a gun -- but she's not able to cope with what she has at home. There was something to work there, and it's been very interesting to me. On the other hand, despite having a very important job, she has to take care of her mother. It's in the role of always, even if it's a senior position. It's very strong from the outside, but it has its weaknesses, and that's made it a very interesting challenge.

Even late, finding in-depth female characters in television series seems increasingly normal. Do you agree?

Yes, it is true. When I started doing the tests, I didn't know exactly what Rachel Murillo would look like. I thought of Nekane, Goenkale. For thirteen years I became a policeman and I didn't really want to repeat it. But when I saw the character's arc, its emotional range and its development throughout history, it drew me a lot. Until recently, from a certain age onwards, women disappeared from the stories, and in this case an adult woman has a great prominence. There is a slight change in that direction, but it is still small.

There are also many women protagonists in series who have been awarded internationally. Another thing is the basic work: Is the same trend observed in writers, technical teams or directors?

You can't notice that. At the tables that create stories, there's very little woman sitting there. There are also few scriptwriters, just like directors. In the technical team, I see more and more women, but in the camera, for example, very few. Storymakers are still men, and that's important, because that's where you look. From a gender point of view, the world of fiction has changed less than what is shown.

The success of La Casa de Papel has involved the call for boycotts that some activated when we participated in a campaign for the Basque prisoners. Is it hard to be afraid of losing career opportunities by giving personal opinions?

Giving a personal opinion on some issues limits the possibilities for work. In my case, it was for defending the rights of the prisoners. I've lost some job opportunities because of that. The path that many people have taken has been silence. I have the utmost respect for those who have made that choice, and I understand that, but there are times when we have to move forward, depending on what is at stake. It is also true that, from time to time, we want to abuse our public image. We should share that concern because, otherwise, a few carry the full burden. As has happened to Willy Toledo: he cannot develop his life because his ideas are political, and that is very serious. We are very unprotected. It's hard.

For many years no series have been made in the Basque Country, and since the series industry has changed so much, almost none. Those responsible for ETB say that it is too expensive, that there is no public… Where can you get that knot?

It can be a way of making co-productions. It's a tricky thing to do in Spanish when it is, but it doesn't have to. We should look for ways of co-productions in Basque, what I know, also involving the communities of the diaspora or similar formulas. Change comes at full speed and we have to spy on it.

Some say there is a lack of ideas.

I don't think so. If there are ideas, what's missing is the courage, the courage to take that risk. There seems to be no money for it, but I am sure there are ideas. What's missing is believing in them. When the series are at the height of history, we do not have a series to offer them. It is symptomatic, the generalist chains in general have lost a lot of viewers, each seeing at their own pace the contents through these platforms, and you have to adapt to it. It seems to me that ETB has not been very much in it.

The example of cinema is clear.

Yes, but the aid has always come late. Organizations typically go behind a step. Projects emerge, they move forward, and when institutions see that they go well, they decide to support. But it should be the other way around. Ideas must be strengthened, even if they do not always work well. You have to push it when you try, then it's easy. The success of the low-budget projects shows that there is competition, there is interest. Even with the series, if you make a special effort…

What are the consequences of this lack of series in Basque?

In the past there were references and now they have disappeared, that the crisis is the other. If ETB1 was created with one objective, it has not succeeded in any way. Today's young people, in fiction, have no reference in Euskera. They are available to everyone, in Spanish, in English, and it is difficult to compete with him. But not trying to do so is a shame. In addition, before, if it was not produced here, it at least doubled. Now, imagine, either.