The Basque College is a nascent institution. Analyse the current socio-political situation in Iparralde.

Iñaki Etxeleku: In the last ten years, society has changed sociologically, mainly due to demographic growth. The population has doubled, especially in Lapurdi. Over the last 60 years, we have grown from 150,000 to 300,000 people. In the past there were elderly people here, to pass the toilet here, now young people have arrived, to work, to form a family, and here it is consolidated. This has had a great impact on urban planning, much is being built and has made water, waste and transport management even more difficult, including that of social services. All of this has been a socio-political change. As far as the Basque political movement is concerned, the last generations have opted for the Single Commonwealth of Iparralde. It is the degeneration or humiliation suffered by the Abertzale movement. Today, it seems that there is only Euskal Elkargoa.

Kattin Chilibolost: I did not know the struggles in favor of the Department and the Territorial Community. Finally, the proposal by the French Government has been approved. The new institution has many departments, everything is under discussion and this raises doubts. The College must be an instrument for solving the problems here, both of the work and of the rapid growth of the population, which is very worrying.

Iulen Guiresse: In general, a political structure has been given lower than that demanded by society, at least by nationalists, but it has been accepted. On the one hand, I have perceived it well because the institutionalization of Ipar Euskal Herria has been given, because all public policies are going to work together from Hendaia to Maule. But for a while, it's been a move away from power. The ten existing small schools have been grouped together, but the strongest urban centres are on the coast. The demographic problem is great on the coast, as 80% of the population lives in Lapurdi, so power has concentrated more on the coast. You feel new struggles between elected people on the inside and on the coast, basically in the distribution of funds. Seeing for the first time with Zuberoa, Baxenabarre and Lapurdi is a novelty for Sulatins. He's started making Ipar Euskal Herria. In Zuberoa, however, not everyone has seen the birth of the College with good eyes. Because it is being done within the framework of the NOTRe law to organize the territoriality of the Republic. They are very confused, because urban centres can dominate the Community.

I. Etxeleku: It's true. There is arrest on the part of the interior voters. Most have opted for the College, but some fear centralising. They distrust the policy of the French Government, which has been disappearing the services of small towns, such as schools and post houses, for example. Until now, the schools in each place worked and each one of them was accustomed to their tasks. In the spirit of NUESTRA ley is the metropolis, which has been developed in Bordeaux, Paris, Lyon or Toulouse, and the same scheme is being applied here. This practice can make politics even more technocratic. Elects from the Baiona-Angelu - Biarritz (BAM) city centre are already employed in inter-urban management, shifting power to the coast. The question is: how will the needs of the interior be met and how will balance be achieved?

The coast and the interior of the north have been represented by the south in duplicity or confrontation. Is that the case?

I. Guiresse: The North 60 years ago and the present are not the same. Many people who live in Zuberoa work on the coast, they're back and forth. It is true that there are still two worlds: urban and rural. I have not known the confrontation between the coast and the interior. He pointed out that in the past there has been a confrontation between the political choices of the Abertzales, between those of IK and those of ETA. In Maule before the Abertzales were together, we now have relationships between Abertzales and not Abertzales. When the Abertzales said that 40 years ago the Basque country was on the verge of extinction, the others did not believe it. Giving the children in the ikastola was not well seen. Now that has changed. The Basque country has gained prestige, people do not reject the ikastolas, there is always someone, but few. There's a new environment. And naski, the Basque Country has gained prestige today, more than ever aware that it is about to die. For some the ikastolas were not necessary, people believed that the Basque country would endure on its own. Now many people have realized that he is going to die without giving the means the Basque needs.

K. Chilibolost: Before and now, in Iparralde there are very different social realities. Demographically, villages are being emptied and towns are being opened, especially on the coast. Mobile phones or the Internet aren't too consolidated on the mountain, they haven't reached every corner of the planet. There's another rhythm of life, people don't live so well in the world, daily time doesn't go the same way. For a child born in Biarritz or Maule, the “world” is not the same. It is true that the people 30 years ago and today's people are not in the same place, and that is not a bad thing, but we have to consider it a good thing. Everyone has to learn on the other hand, we have a lot to learn together, to go beyond that vitality or confrontation, if ever.

I. Etxeleku: I don't know if there's a duality between the city and the dwelling, there's their own natures. I see in the new generation a kind of return. The young people of the 80-90's moved more towards the coast or to the south. A young man of a new generation, about twenty years old, is eager to be in the same region, to create a dynamic in the same town and to live there. More linked than ours to Euskera and to Basque culture. If we look at the dynamics of gaztetxes or cultural associations, they are younger than in our time, and the children of the ikastolas have also multiplied.

K. Chilibolost: OK. Until our generation, agriculture has been seen as a lost, poor field, where you will never be able to advance socially... That impression or that conviction is changing, living in the countryside today is a decent job, ecology is a responsible task. That feeling also exists in the world at large.

What is your opinion about the transmission of intergenerational relations?

I. Etxeleku: If I am not mistaken, “the new generation usually denies the previous generation,” I once heard Guillaume Irigoien [Ainhize-Monjolose, 1959]. In other words, the new generation begins to function on its own. It is true, but not entirely. The influence of the ancients cannot be erased, the cultural influence is natural, there is a point of determinism. In our case, the awareness that the Basque country was in danger of disappearing was a great awareness, the awareness of emptying the interior. Awareness of the need for work in the people. The militants of our previous generations gave much – the creation of ikastolas, companies or cooperatives – and we assumed it as a burden. We took the “commandment” that we had to give “succession.” It was not “mandated”, but the previous generation says that the offspring does not do enough, and the new generation considers it as “burden”.

Mixel Bergouignan (Baigorri, 1947) of the former generation of Guillaume Irigoien “our generation will and will hardly be replaced,” he said once. I mean, I didn't see "succession."

K. Chilibolost: This conception of Bergouignan has been common among the militants. But by taking your family as an example, it's not true. My son took over from the farm. Things are not all or nothing. Society is changing and the way we act is changing too. There are things that are transmitted spontaneously, naturally, without saying anything. The parents have taught us with effort, they have not told us “you have to fight more”. Our generations, like those of yesteryear, have learned it with mimicry. The mussel or repatriation of generations is natural. Our parents had their time and we had ours. In addition, I don't want to look at what they did in the past. It's good to realize his story, but I'm clear that I'm from this time and I need to live this time. In his history, there are optimistic and pessimistic things. Good things and bad things should not weigh us.

I. Guiresse: Today, it is more difficult to carry this “succession” forward. For example, in nationalism, at the time when the armed struggle was in force, the young people had the hope that Euskal Herria would from one day to another sovereign. Today the Single Commonwealth of Iparralde is underway, it is a political institution, we have to learn to work on consensus policy. And it is more difficult, first of all, to imagine the current path because it is more difficult than to “imagine” the path of sovereignty, because the goal is further away. Our parents haven't done everything right. They have lived in the consumer world, for example, bought the cheapest profits in the department stores, not knowing where the products came from. Those of our generation are more aware of this and we give more cases. What is your time or our easiest? The “believing” in their goals facilitated “not thinking” so much. We live on a day of consensus, we have to “think” more. We develop the debates in a different way.

Today’s young people are more realistic and those of the past more utopian…

I. Guiresse: They came from a time when the right to self-determination was proclaimed, and they were the days of Algeria ' s decolonization. They thought there might be something similar here, too. Now it's harder. Environmentalism has advanced the national problem and also the problems of migration.

K. Chilibolost: Our previous generation, and even more so that of parents, have lived in a different environment. They thought there could be a change in the world, which was what would influence here. Today it's the other way around. As Iñaki, our generation, naski, mentioned, is embarking on a second round.

Has the way of being a militant changed?

I. Etxeleku: It's transformed, it's transformed, it's transformed, it's different. Today, it's very difficult to think about a long-term project and put it into shape, it's much more difficult than in our time. At the time of our parents, for example, the children were in school and knew what path they were going to take: first, second, school, liceo... It was an almost vivid project. Next year, we don't know if people are going to be here, society is constantly changing its place.

K. Chilibolost: Before, the job was at least a year, now the employment contracts are made for a month, there's nothing fixed, everything moves, you don't have confidence, everything goes fast. We have internalized that this is the way it should be, that it starts today and changes tomorrow. We don't project ourselves, we try to bring things in a stable way, but given that the environment is constantly changing. How does it adapt to this situation? How do you turn a project into solid and solid? That's our parium.

You have witnessed a historic moment. The ETA final was staged in Baiona. How have you experienced what happened?

I. Guiresse: From Maule we have to take into account two worlds: that of the Abertzales and that of the others. The environment of the Abertzales has changed, or at least the view towards them, because violence has ceased, because demonstrations and confrontations have diminished. The truth is that, for zuberotars in general, the end of ETA has had no consequences, people have not followed that issue. The political life of the South has never been influenced by Maule, and now either.

K. Chilibolost: When Baiona’s act was offered, I was not “excited.” From the time ETA passed the ceasefire to the appearance in Baiona it was very young. I was aware of change, but I have not assimilated it as an “experience.” Then I realized, when I learned, that the appearance of Baiona has been historic. I have become aware of what has happened. I did not care about anything, some lived with joy, we young people had no special “motivation”, we had not lived the past. Among the people there was “emotion”, either because of what they have lived or because of what they have done. But we don't live yours. At that age we are at another time, we have other desires.

I. Etxeleku: The political situation had to be resolved in order to put an end to the damage caused. In the mold that has been made, the symbols have been important, a kind of spectacle has been assembled, giving it the most dignified solution possible to get out of this difficult situation. Then, the years go by and it's the question of many. “What now?” I would say that there are many people lost to this question. And now what?

Talk about North and South: Do the new generations know the South? And vice versa?

I. Guiresse: The North don't go far to the South, just a few. The same goes for the South. When I was at the University (Kattin and she studied in Bilbao) a professor once told us: “Speak in your dialect, you from Durango, you from Andoain, you from Iparralde.” This means the knowledge of the North. Here, too, some speak of the Southern Basque, as if it were one. So we don't know each other, neither those in here, nor those in there, nor those in there.

In the South there are many kinds of Euskaldunes. The Giputxi are shocked when they go to Bilbao. Because they don't find it in the Basque Country. We are in Maule in France, the French is the master. Therefore, in Bilbao, the same is true for us. Actually, most of the time in Bilbao I spoke in Basque, even with unknown people, but here I only speak in Basque with known people. For us, the meetings have been very important, both here and there. The recourse of the Basque Country batua has also been important.

K. Chilibolost: I have lived as a whim going to study south. At the time of our parents it was difficult or curious to cross the border, for us it is more normal. In any case, relations are between very few people, very few of us know the South, and those of Hegoalde too little of ours. Iulen and I learned in Leioa, the Abertzales know an amini ours, and not all. But no wonder, here either, at BAM they don't know the inside either, or Zuberoa. In other words, I do not know the Basque Country in detail either, for example, Navarre or Álava, and it is a medallion. We don't know each other, we need to work the modes of transmission and connection more to get to know each other.

I. Etxeleku: We are few and each person has their own experience. Knowledge is given in an “individual” way. It's difficult to generalize. I had more relationship with the South in the past, but the South is not one. I have met those of the Goierri of Gipuzkoa, who did the tuteo, with the ease that I make the juice, and I was close to them, also with the Navarros. Knowledge should always be done through something, with knowledge of dance, theater or bertsolarism. And for that, the fundamental element is Euskera batua. The Basque batua has made us the same world, and that is not small. The times are special, and I mentioned relocation, and I am sure it is not happening all over the Basque Country. People want it to be in place when it's not for regular consumption...

Is the South more consumed than the North?

I. Guiresse: No, consumption is the same here and there. Here and there are several kinds of people. In Zuberoa there are three, or eleven, and people are not in the same place to consume.
The limit is there.

I. Guiresse: The border is marked by states, but we too establish it, there are cultural limits, our ways of life are limits. However, globalisation and market liberalisation have created common references. The young people of Bilbao, Maule and Baiona will be able to follow on Netflix the same TV show or the same international music group.

I. Etxeleku: Despite this, the young Basques here follow the main Basque media in the South: News, ARGIA or EITB. A monitoring of the South is carried out by the north.

K. Chilibolost: We're a small core, but there's something.

Returning to the North, what is the relationship between the French and the Basque world?

I. Etxeleku: In the 1990s, although not related to the Basque world, the Castilian speaking people knew that the Basque country existed. In addition, a group of people moved around Basque culture. Today, we speak in Basque and increasingly hear “I don’t know Spanish”. That is, the Basque country has no visibility, less than 40 years ago. The number of inhabitants has doubled in BAM, while adults live in France. The BAM is spreading above, Capital, Mugerre, Ahetze... Homes are accumulating, they're expanding further and further inward. As in Hendaia, many consider the Basque language as “Spanish”. For them, the Basque is “Spanish”.

I. Guiresse: Many people have come to Euskal Herria and feel not even able to guess the Basque. As if they'd gone to Alsace, there in French, here too. Therefore, it is “normal”, they are not aware of our own. Some people think that Euskera is not here, that there is no Euskera here. For my studies, I did a survey on the North. Those of BAM think that a percentage of the residents here are Basque, that the Basque language is about to disappear. In the survey, I asked about independence. “If independence is an economic improvement, would you vote for or against?” Most people told me that my questions were not objective, that they were questions of a madman. Inside it is different, the Basque and Spanish worlds are closer.

K. Chilibolost: In the interior they understand the Basque world, but they agree with our world, or with the ideas of the nationalists. However, most know that there is Euskera and Basque Country.

It's just been Euskaraldia. What is the situation of the Basque country among the Basques?

I.Etxeleku: I endorse what Amets Arzallus said. You can't say better.

I. Guiresse: Not in Zuberoa in general, but French Maulen is the main language. Then in recent years there are people who have approached the Basque world, some even say they are nationalists. They have come from the world on the left and do not refuse to speak in Basque, but what is more than living in Basque. As if that were not enough, there has been no change in society in relation to the Basque country, but there has also been no rupture. It's no small thing.

K. Chilibolost: In my world we speak in Basque. Before, the main tendency was to do it in French and now it is usually spoken in Basque. This change has also occurred in the gaztetxe inland and on the coast, where the snow has fallen. Euskaraldia has been an interesting and necessary exercise, regarding the use of the Basque language, such initiatives are necessary. Of course, the benefits will last a long time. We will not immediately adopt the tendency to use Euskera. I speak in Basque with my colleagues and those who do not know are learning.

I. Etxeleku: In gaztetxes the Basque is used much more than in our time, with total naturalness. In some associations they think of Euskera and the projects are developed in Euskera, in our generation this was not so evident, the two languages were mixed and French predominated. In Zuberoa it's not going to be like that, because it's different, but inside it is. The generation that has come from the ikastolas has brought the conscience in favor of the Basque. For example, at the Euskal Herria Zuzenean festival (EHZ) the Basque country has had a natural place.