You say you're a gypsy, mestizo and feminist, and I wonder how you've come to reclaim those three identities.

It's all one. Many times I've been asked if I suffer more because I'm a woman or because I'm a gypsy, but look, I can't divide into three parts. I present myself as a Gypsy because I am, and I say that I am a mestizo to get rid of this issue of Hitler and racial purity. I'm really a mestizo, but anyway, I'm not sure how much blood I have. Again I got a transfusion and I don't know if that blood was donated by gypsies or clowns, so ...

It shows how absurd that passion for “measuring” race can be.

Yes, it is absurd. Hitler did so: if in one of the sixteen gypsy eras, that is, your great-grandmother was a gypsy, it was enough to send him to the gas chamber. Think about it!

And feminist?

How not! In addition, she is a Gypsy and Mestizo feminist. In the society in which we live, there is nothing else to do with the two: patriarchy and anti-Roma racism, who are siblings. Let us not forget that. We can't fight each other on their own, we need alliances, because they're two male animals, brothers, they feed each other. We're not going to end patriarchy only if we attack patriarchy.

You say that in the ghetto you discovered the gypsy condition and outside it the persecution against the gypsies.

There were some glitches. I think it's happened to us all, also with feminism: suddenly something makes you snap and you realize that what's happened to you goes beyond you and has very deep roots. I grew up and lived a long time with the clowns, then I spent 5 years in the ghetto and there I discovered my gypsy condition, there I discovered the social structure of the Roma, how we organize, how we grow the children… I found all that good Gypsy character. I was identified as a gypsy, as I did not before.

And then?

Then I got out of the ghetto because a person helped me, so I wanted to leave, of course, but without help you can't leave. So, outside of him, I realized what I really meant to be in the ghetto and what brought me suffering. With male violence, the same thing happens, whatever it is: when you get out of there, you see what you've actually suffered.

You say that you found “all that good Roma character”. What does it consist of?

The truth is that there is neither good nor bad part. On the one hand there is the image of the payos and on the other there is the real reality of the gypsies, which is the only difference. In the Payos imaginary, Gypsy women are subordinate and Machian men; we are dirty, we do not wash our brains on children… Stupideces. The reality of the Roma, however, is that the institutions have created ghettos and that is where they have accumulated us.

He just wrote about ghetto. You say: “Most of the Roma live in ghetto, and ghettos, in short, are the result of an urban policy against the Roma: they isolate, distance and stack the Roma to better control them and reassure the rest of the citizens.”

People believe that the Roma live in the ghetto because they want it, because they give them aid and free water, but they don't. They build houses and introduce us, because on this peninsula you can't live in a caravan, you only have one option: buy a flat or rent it, and it's already there. And I don't want that, I don't want mortgages and work 16 hours a day. I'm often told that the Gypsies don't work, and I say, thank you. Because we don't want that model, we've been sold.

We have already mentioned twice or three times racism against the Roma, so let us address it. What is it?

Racism is a form that is part of the ideology of the preponderance of the race of clowns. The organizational models of clowns are imposed on all peoples, both in politics and in culture, and it is structural, it is in all the structures of society. I said the other day that a rich Gypsy and a poor Gypsy suffer in the same way from Gypsy racism and I have been beaten to say that, but that is the case. Of course, there are crossings, there is patriarchy, there is sociophobia, etc., but this anti-Roma racism is structural, institutional, the patriarchal capitalist payo system drives it and also affects the rich Roma man.

Let us look at one of these crossroads: woman and gypsy. Do you receive specific attacks?

Yes, it is called patriarchal racism against the Roma. Some call it gender gititophobia, but I don't like it. Gititophobia is a phobia, that is, repugnance or hatred of the Roma, but it does not have the power to lay down the laws. However, Roma racism is a system, as is patriarchy. Patriarchal racism against the Roma therefore affects women exclusively. For example, according to the Minister of Education, the failure of our children at school is the fault of the Gypsies who love it. But the minister should perhaps think that it is his responsibility, that of racist teachers and the anti-Roma system in general. According to the Ministry of Education, 67% of Roma and Roma have failed at school. If it were 67 percent of the children, the minister would organize meetings, talk to each other, and the members of the education community would think something is going wrong and try to fix it. But because those kids are Gypsies, we're blamed, I love.

Do you also suffer from racism in health centers, right?

Yes, the medical institution is racist and they try to deceive us, to convince us. They offer us hormones, we don't get pregnant, because of course, what are we going to do with the three kids? Well, if I want to have three children, it's my business, he's not going to educate them. I will educate them myself, us. And it's not just the health system, but also the social services, the police and the justice system. If you go to the Social Service and you apply there for the grant that you have to live in any city, they ask you how many children you have and why you have so many, and if you have so many children and how you raise, etc. On the contrary, if a woman has ten children, it's from Opus Dei, and there's no problem. Or if, at the other end, a woman Payo has four children and rearing them through an alternative method and doesn't send them to school because she does home schooling and I don't know what, we think it's great.

Both Nicolás Jiménez and he have written an article on Roma racism and have produced an extensive list of examples of how it is carried out in the Spanish State. Many of the examples relate to the laws: for example, the lack of recognition of the Roma people.

Yes, or for another example, they don't recognize our flag either. What if a Spanish flag is burned? You go to jail, you're an Ethiopian. However, if you burn the Gypsy flag, nothing happens, you can burn, you can open it on the networks and nothing will happen. That is a tremendous recognition, and not only does it happen in Spain, our flag is not recognized here either. And, in my opinion, here… Well, I’m not going to tell you how you have to do things, but if we want to be otherwise, you have to do things differently.

Should we have more sensitivity here?

Of course, by language, by identity… If I lived here I would militate in EH Bildu, for the recognition of the peoples. I think we can have great allies here.

Systemic racism against the Roma population is not a matter of yesterday in the Spanish State. I have taken this information from your article: “In 1749 something happened that we would call today an attempt at genocide: all the gypsies were arrested, men, women and children. The men were sent to the marine arsenals to do what was necessary and the women to the houses of mercy, also to work.” But you've survived. What resistance strategy have you used?

Before I come to the question, I would like to mention something else. In 1749 there was a great raid on the Roma in Spain. He arrived in Euskal Herria a little later, but when the authorities received the letter from the raid, they replied: But why are we going to do the raid, because there is no gypsy left here! In the Basque Country there was enormous ethnic cleansing, much tougher than in other places.

Having said that, at the time of the raid the gypsies made great resistance, and the women did the most important thing. Of course, we have only received what has been documented. Manuel Martínez Paya has been researching that, and since he's a great ally, I have data. Gypsy women detained throughout the state were gathered in three houses of mercy: Zaragoza, Catalonia and Denia. And the women of Zaragoza did a great deal of resistance. They wanted to force them to Mass and to wash and care for the sick, who had tripled and undressed. They did everything. We have a lot of resistance strategies and they would come very well to feminism, so you know!

He writes in various media and denounces racist racism against the Roma. How have the readers received you?

All right. I know I've been a little hard lately, but I write chasing the bowels and impulses. I write when something hurts me and I can't write without feeling what I write. I'm not a journalist, I write opinion papers, and sometimes I think maybe I should write more calmly, because I think we can and should be allies. But I'm always accused of the same thing, and I'm bored. They always tell me: do not integrate. And I say, thank you, I think that's a compliment. Because we are an alternative, one of the few alternatives to the current social model, and I want the Left and feminism to treat us as allies, and independence, because I think it's a very important struggle, I'm a Roma nationalist. There's a lot to learn, and we can be allies and fight together against this system that oppresses us.

Finally, a question about the questions. He has conducted some interviews: Is there something you've never been asked, and would you like me to answer?

Look, I'd like to personally interview a country and ask why the clown system oppresses me. Why is it a clown system? Don't you think we should build an alternative?