"All citizens have a degree of responsibility in the wars in the Middle East"
- The case of Jamal Khaxoggi has once again brought to the forefront of history the issue of arms trafficking between states. Several countries have already announced that they will stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia, but not Spain, which has no choice. Pedro Sánchez, with no hair in his mouth, has recognised that the interests that unite the two countries are above the Khaxoggi case, that is, translated, that the interests are above the deaths that the weapons may cause.
This is the title of your conference in Zabaldi (Pamplona): “The wars there start here.” Why?
With our education, with our institutions, with our lifestyle… all of this, we have a degree of direct or indirect responsibility for the wars that take place there. Yesterday, the Congress of Deputies decided to continue the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia, so this sale will affect the Middle East and, in particular, Yemen. Since public opinion in the State does not oppose this situation, all citizens have a level of responsibility in the wars that they have there, even indirectly.
How much is the world's annual military spending?
According to official data provided by governments, it is estimated that it will be EUR 1 billion and EUR 75 billion, 2.3% of the world’s GDP. We spend a lot more on cosmetics, perhaps twice as much, but it's not the same, one money serves to decorate and another to kill.
How many people die a year with that money?
It's per year, but with an average of about 50,000 people. At the end of the Cold War in 1992, there were 32 armed conflicts in the world, currently 33. We haven't gotten much better. We dedicate similar resources to the military economy and it does not go to social spending. It's a non-productive economy. The Spanish State, for example, allocates EUR 20 billion to military spending: EUR 1 billion to foreign participation and the rest to defend themselves against a possible attack.
Arms sales or loss of thousands of jobs. That's sold to the citizen.
That's a lie. A lot of money is spent on R & D in the military industry, because the quality of previous weapons needs to be continually improved, but that no longer influences the civilian industry. There are many good studies that say that for every job there is in the military industry, three can be created in the civilian industry. On the other hand, there is an ethical vision, it is unacceptable that some countries should come to sell arms to suppress their citizens or murder citizens from other countries. Citizens who accept arms in return for their jobs have lost the principle of international solidarity of workers.
What is the trend of the military company in Spain?
The first part was of the State, but it has been partially privatized. For Saudi Arabia, the one that makes boats to the corvette of Cadiz, for example, is that of Navantia, the state. Since Franco founded it in 1948, this company loses a lot of money each year, for example, 140 million euros in 2016; ten years ago it had 7,000 workers and now it had 4,000. All State shipyards were closed except the military. In ten years, Navantia has lost EUR 700 million, so it would be much more effective to devote that money to the civil industry. The arms race makes no sense either economically or ethically.
Furthermore, we citizens know what these weapons are for and we do not care.
Yes, it is true. Now, for example, the blockade of Saudi Arabia to Yemen leaves 7.4 million people at risk of starvation or illness, and the corvettes that Spain sells will serve to increase that maritime blockade. That is unacceptable, the government has no principles, it has no ethics, and so that brings the hardest selfishness.
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Can that major economic conflict between China and the United States lead to a military war?
China will become the world’s leading economic power by 2020, 2021 or very soon, ahead of the United States. East Asia is currently at the centre of the global productive economy. Therefore, the clashes will grow, but I do not believe that, as some say, it will be the Third World War. This “anti-terrorist war” launched by the United States has begun some time ago and brought with it major conflicts: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen… and from time to time the attacks come to us. However, 99% of these terrorist attacks occur in Eastern European countries, where 1% reach the West. This war can only be stopped by pulling its roots, but the West does not want it.
And to round off the situation, Donald Trump has announced the suspension of the medium- and long-range nuclear missile agreement he signed with the Soviet Union.
[Mikhail] The agreement between Gorbachev and [Ronald] Reagan stated that NATO would not extend eastward, but since the end of the Cold War NATO has only conquered almost all the countries of Eastern Europe. In addition, the United States has broken the agreements so as not to build systems that protect it from missile attacks and has surrounded Russia from those attacks. And now this threat. If it is complied with, a new arms race will begin, in which Russia will not be left behind. But we'll see what happens, because for Trump, in my opinion, Putin is an ally, rather than an enemy.
Has that rearmament no longer begun in China, India, Russia…?
China has greatly strengthened its army, especially the navy, to protect raw materials from Africa and South America, but it has not fallen into the trap of developing the nuclear industry that the United States wants to put in, or in the space race – it knows that it would have to spend huge sums and is unwilling.
That happened to the Soviet Union.
Yeah, and so it sank. Now Russia has created a strong alliance with China, India and Iran, and there a “against the West” bloc has been formed. The United States and its allies will have nothing to do with maintaining global military and economic hegemony. I therefore believe that we will continue with regional wars, but not directly between powers, which today can wipe out humanity.
Coming to Catalonia, have you ever seen the danger of a violent conflict?
No, never. The Spanish Government’s repression of the referendum on 1 October was harsh and painful, but I also saw no risk of violence. What would be logical would be an agreement between the parties and for the Catalan people to be able to decide at the ballot box what the future they want. That is what the independence parties should look for, because the unilateral path will mean the repetition of the mistakes that have been made so far. In any case, until the issue of prisoners and exiles is resolved, it is not easy to find a solution, but they should do so and above all Pedro Sánchez.
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