What are our old parts changing in?
The transformation occurs mainly in the commercial model. On Mercaderes Street [Pamplona] there is a Burger King. When Starbucks agrees, it's over. When the shops are lost forever, the bars are lost forever, we lose the consumption as long as the big companies come, we start to lose our personality. You can be at a McDonalds in Pamplona, San Sebastian or Tokyo. That's globalization. Identity is being lost in forms of consumption, not in monuments, not in the streets.

In the days the old areas have been presented as battlefields. It brings together history and identity, but also the pressure of tourism and urban projects.
I believe that this joyful battle has not yet come to Pamplona. Here is not San Sebastian, where they are at war with the tourist apartments and the natives are being expelled from the Old Party. The Old Part of San Sebastian looks like Eurodisney, all full of tourists, and it's losing its tone. I believe that in Pamplona this is still not happening, because in the city hall they are moving ahead to avoid that. We have not reached that point. Are we going to get there or not? Who knows?

What if it's already too late?
Yeah, that's looking for balance. On the one hand, it's good that people come to the city, because it moves the economy and consumption, and it creates jobs. But where does it start to lose our identity? Where's that point?

Is the balance possible?This is
rather utopian: once the business is seen, stakeholders start playing the big one, and in the end comes a point where they look back and say: “It’s gone out of my hands.” It is difficult to find that balance point.

The neighbors of the Casco Viejo de Pamplona/Iruña have begun to protest the rise of the city's tourist apartments. There is also the project of the great hostel in Unzu-ko. It
is true that there are hot spots, such as Estafeta Street, and that in recent years tourist apartments have increased: there has been a Kriston Boom, but it has not yet managed to expel the neighbours, as in Madrid: an agency has come, bought the whole building and expelled the neighbours.

But rent prices are on the rise.
Yes, but I don't know if it's the effect of the tourist apartments or we're going back to a bubble. It is true that many tourist apartments and hotels have been installed, but I think we have made progress, we have planned what may come. But it is true that the neighbours complain.

Is there tourism that does not influence the lives of the locals?
We have to try to sell our heads as we are. There is a slow movement of tours that puts local life value: knowing the cities and small towns in a quiet way, mixing with people, knowing the customs and language of their inhabitants... It was born in Italy, in the paradigm of tourism, as an opposite movement. That is a starting point, and in Navarre we have the opportunity to do so, with the rural houses, with the small towns, with the Basque people and with our culture. That would be the model. Otherwise: Sanfermines.

Why?
We have escaped from our hands. Perhaps now we have started to change our minds, but I would say that over the past ten years it has gone hand in hand. In the tourist office we have seen what business is built during the sanfermines, especially by the external agencies. I think they have lost their eternal essence.

Someone will say that there is no quiet tourism, that there is no incentive for tourists to arrive, either in one model or in another.

There's someone in my house who believes it that way. But we are also tourists, and when we go somewhere else, we like to be comfortable, not be seen wrong. We should also make those who come to our house feel, for empathy.

How do you count a city?
You must believe in your history, conquer yourself, after all, you are the apostle of your city. If you don't know it, if you don't live and feel it, it's pretty hard to tell. I don't like typical cars, and I never tell Sanfermin's accounts, I'd rather tell the history of the city. Often visitors say: “I didn’t know Pamplona was 2,000 years old.” Our history and heritage are very unknown, and that is also significant.

In Navarre, what is known, it also influences politically.
Yes, here, for example, conquest or annexation is used, that is the battlefield. I always say conquest, because that's how it was: you have to try to be neutral, but tell the truth. There are many ways to tell the city, and everyone has their vision, the story is very flexible. And there's everything between us.

What has changed tourism?
Globalization influences, because you lose your personality. On the other hand, the Internet: before we go to any site, we enter the websites and we see everything. My aunt says: “What’s the point to travel if I’ve seen Alleys travelers?” We’ve lost the surprise option.