The United States Bar Association ABA named you Legal Rebel in 2009, no doubt, Walker. You claim another right: Integrative law.

It's the movement that's making the way. It's not just a single person, it's not a single way of doing things. It is a movement that involves a change in the work of lawyers and lawyers, a more conscious, humanistic and inclusive way of doing justice and peace. A single voice is not strong enough to bring together the wishes of lawyers working in the world, it cannot have the echo of its cry. However, we are all saying the same thing: “This can be different!” You have brought the title of Legal Rebelde to your question, and the truth is that I had a great honor. Soon after, the ABA asked me to write the book. They wanted me to tell me what I saw and studied. And I said, in 2010, I wrote Lawyers as Peacemakers, and it was the best seller. Then I was asked to write another one along the same lines, and I wrote Lawyers as Changemakers, The Global Integrative Law Movement in 2016. And he was also on the best-seller list.

It has opened a new path in law, which began to make the usual path.

I studied my studies in 1989. I became an attorney, but I didn't like it. I found the work of a lawyer regrettable. Then I met a Chicago lawyer. It was Forrest Bayard. He thought of another model of advocacy: pacification, collaboration, dignity ... He talked to me about these things. He taught me there was no other way. Until then I thought I didn't like advocacy, but I thought it was my thing, that I was alone. But I was wrong, I wasn't the only one. Forrer changed my life and the way my lawyer was working. My duty has been to follow him, to trace him, to make way for him. Then my job has been to inform others of what I have seen.

Spreading the benefits of integrative law for a long time.

I am a lawyer who aims to change systems in our profession, that is, the establishment of certain values and models: Integrative law. In that I am my current life, in a world in which I live chasing my desires, from one side to the other, for certain values. I'm a follower of lawyers who are changing the way we practice our profession. Lawyers who are doing things in an unusual way are unusual in the eyes of members of the same profession, although what they are doing is progressive, incredible and terrible. Well, maybe that's why they're considered unusual. Instead of working alone, teamwork is much easier. The team gives you courage and courage to move forward.

How did you start the world on the path that has brought you to tell your truth?

In 1999, I did a course. We had to think about an impossible job, and we had to find and find the way to do the impossible. I invented a law change project, a system change project: I transformed lawyers into peacemakers, settlers, conflict facilitators and agents of the human group change around them. And it's that lawyers have more strength than you think. Influencers are now said and anyone can be the influencer, but actually the most influencers are lawyers. You have them in different communities, factories, companies, governments and institutions. Whatever role you sign, all kinds of contracts, covenants, agreements, divorces, buying and selling homes -- you need an attorney. I, therefore, was able to carry out that “impossible” project, thinking that, even if it ruined me, the world would be a better place after my work. That's how I started.

As you walk around the world, you've brought people together on your way.

I would say that we have come together. At first, before I started touring the world, I was at conferences, events and very different days. Sometimes as a listener, sometimes as a participant. I saw that they dealt with all the issues that were wanted. In one, holistic law; in another, therapeutic jurisprudence. There, the law and the creative way to solve the issues; here, activism. Next time they talked about humanizing education in law, or nonviolent communication ... However, everywhere, when people started talking, I felt the same concerns, the desire, the intention, the will to develop my profession in a different way ... However, I saw myself only in all those sessions, because no one, like me, was involved in all kinds of meetings. Each of the days was a different corner, without connection between the corners, without anyone knowing what they were in the next corner, in the days or meetings.

You started to look for the same concerns.

In a way, yes. I picked up what I was listening to, that is, the concerns that were repeated over and over again at all the meetings that I met. I soon saw myself teaching people who worked in the field of law, identifying those who could be exemplary by opening new paths, searching for and finding ways to help the development of law. That's how I went. But transforming law wasn't a profession, it wasn't paid. I left the house where I lived, I left the office and I headed to the road. “To start, it will be for three months,” I thought. Seventeen years have passed since then. And since then, I've known in the world the most innovative, bold and true lawyers of all time. I approached a video camera, and I talked to many of the people who were doing innovative work. I also interviewed 100 people. I decided to choose a few minutes and do the documentary, but I soon realized that the testimonies were very strong, and I put them on a website.

What is Integrative Law?

When I'm asked to explain it, I'm going to tell a story, the old story of the blind and the elephant. There were six blind people, and for the first time in their lives, they met with an elephant. Each touched a different part of the elephant. One of them touched his leg and said: “It looks like a tree.” The other touched his nose, saying: “It’s snake shaped.” He who has touched the tail gives the elephant a string look. He who touched his ears says it's like a windshield. The back looks like a wall. He thinks that the blind people who have touched the tusk are the sword. Everyone therefore has their own truth and they argue without seeing more than their own truth. I have not brought him, but when I have to explain what Integrative Law is, I have at hand the image of an elephant made in wood by my friend. Bah, bah! Integrative law is an elephant. You can observe the movement from different points of view, with different pieces. And even among the members of the movement there are some who have no doubts about what they are doing, but who know nothing about what others are doing. Others are aware of the integrity of the elephant, but do not distinguish the pieces. However, everyone is thinking of another law, the creator, the pacifier, the transformer...

What should we know about integrative law?

That is a different path from that which has been followed so far in the practice of law. It is neither competitive nor aggressive. Lawyers who practice integrative law, all at one, try to make a better world. They want people a good life, a life that allows them to be comfortable with themselves. Mediation, stimulating justice, collaborative practices, and all of this, with elements of positive psychology and social neuroscience. These attorneys want solutions before going to court, including the well-being of all those who are part of the legal system, lawyers and clients. Integrative law is the next big wave of law. Right of collaboration, here, if you want.

He also works in Euskal Herria with several lawyers.

I have sown the seed in both parts. However, in all places the sun, rain, fertilizers are essential... Regarding Integrative Law, Euskal Herria is an example worldwide. Better than anywhere else, this work of transforming law is more focused than ever before. I have contacted lawyers, judges and other representatives here. I also have a sixth trip to Euskal Herria. They found out on the internet. I think we went to Amsterdam together in 2015. Since then, I have come several times: so far we want to change the way we do law and make lawyers, lawyers, other workers of law, a social transformer, conciliator, thinker, holder of certain values...

As you are here, the question is inevitable: How is Trump going with the president?

Too? Trump is a symptom. On the one hand, there were people who wanted change. On the other hand, some bring racism inside. Some were suffering and are still seeing reds, among all those who elected Trump. Now, on the other hand, those who are hungry for power want Trump there, with no other purpose than to increase his profits. But, I say, the one who already has a trillion dollars, what do you want to have two trillion for? I hope that the situation will recover in the forthcoming elections and that our society will regain the values of the majority.