A lot has happened to you in the last year. How do you feel? It has been a very
hard few months and I have come to the porch of the holiday with a special touch. I have reflected and reflected. The speed of events often does not allow us to think well and I hope that we can now do so in the peace of the holidays. I am optimistic and I hope that we will be able to move forward and expand together the political space that it occupied. We may have needed change, even if to do so we have to overcome the acronyms or partisan formulas.

You went from being the party secretary general to being expelled from partido.Cuando I did not believe that I was above anyone and when they came to destroy me I did
not accept the story they have built. I am very calm with my conscience, I have always done what I had to do and, on many occasions, more.

From the beginning the opinions of Navarre were above those of Podemos in Madrid. In Madrid they did not want it to be presented here under the name of Podemos, but we did, and we went out with ours. At first I did not want to be a parliamentarian, but in the end, when I saw the Madrid action, I was obliged to be there, to organize a strong parliamentary group, which, if necessary, disobeyed Podemos from Madrid, if he asked us for a pact with EH Bildu. Now, both in Madrid and here, the PSN and Geroa Bai are approaching.

Also in view of the forthcoming elections?
Our suspicion is that we want to drive a new agreement with the PSN and with Geroa Bai. Agreements can always be reached, but we can defend it would not make any government pact with the PSN. And we also question whether the next government is in the hands of a force that controls the PNV, for example, in the key economic sphere.

GEROA Bai does not say so publicly, but it does want that new majority. We saw that very clearly in the 2017 budgets. When the extraordinary pay of officials was accepted, Geroa Bai wanted the signing of the SNP to be included in that agreement in exchange for two amendments, which approved the budgets. We do not accept it.

The four parties that we have supported the government have had to swallow many contradictions. Blackmail – ‘change or chaos’ – has been used in disagreement to push forward the point of view of Geroa Bai, even though the other three parties are opposed; and those of us who have questioned that we have been uncomfortable. In politics, we have to say how far it can go, and if it cannot be done later, we have to explain why.

You are talking about the momentum in Madrid. How is the new direction of Podemos Navarra located there?
It is not just Madrid, the ones here are also immersed in this program. For example, Eduardo Santos left his seat in the Parliament of Navarra to go to Madrid as a parliamentarian, when he was elected to be here. He committed to the community here, but he went to Madrid. You had to stay here. All of this was done without me knowing it. I have always advocated that a constituent process should be promoted in Navarre and that this requires an alliance of very large social majorities, but in Madrid, for example, they have always refused to reach agreements with EH Bildu. However, the bases of Podemos Navarra rejected Geroa Bai.

What do you like about what you have done in this legislature? I am satisfied, above all, with the economic achievements we drive
forward. For example, when the Government of Navarra’s debt to the Banco Santander was renegotiated, the public treasury saved a lot of money. At first the Finance Minister did not want to negotiate, but in the end we managed to do so and EUR 10 million less was paid. We have managed to spend more money on monitoring tax fraud, but as a result, up to EUR 8 million has been recovered.

The work done on the audit of public debt has enabled us to obtain a great deal of information and we have seen that EUR 191 million of public debt is unfair. At the time, our pressure to give extra pay to the officials of the Government of Navarra was key. There have been many loopholes, especially at the beginning of the legislature, when we had more capacity for pressure. Then, our internal discrepancies in Podemos have drastically reduced that pressure capacity.

What is the truth, what is the lie of the accusations that have been made to you in the partido.La Commission on
Securities of We Can has many defects in form and substance. So, as the case against me progresses, numerous accusations have been piled up, but without being able to present evidence to defend me. They have played with my dignity and honour to achieve their goals and to banish a party sector.

They accuse him of not accepting the change of parliamentary spokesman, of supporting him in Parliament's educational work committee and many other things. Did you regret something you did or would you have done otherwise by seeing what happened?
I would do everything again. I debated the change of spokesman because it was against Parliament’s rules of procedure, with its president in the lead, and because our parliamentary group was denied freedom of expression and ideological freedom. They have also condemned me for many things, among others, for signing a letter in favour of the Referendum in Catalonia on 1 October as a parliamentarian or for leading the tax reform at the expense of the party... they have harassed me.

One of the most controversial was the Certificate of Pedagogical Aptitude (CAP) course, in which you were accused of taking advantage of yourself.
I was accused of joining UPN. They asked for a one-year moratorium and I two, and they offered enough places at the public university to be able to take this course. Why? In order not to happen to me, I was already doing the CAP, but paying EUR 5,700. The decisions made did not affect me, but it did affect 2,400 other teachers who stayed out of the lists, and I was looking at them, because it is not fair that they ask for those conditions and make those amounts pay.

The dossier that opened me up to me is absurd and very complex, and it shows that they have spent an enormous amount of time in the construction of a gigantic assembly of tests; however, when I have shown evidence to defend myself, I have not been taken into account.

In the end, I was kicked out by the Patent Box case. Manu Ayerdi, from Geroa Bai, wanted us to include two last-minute proposals on these Patent Box that benefit big business. We told him that not of the Podemos economic group, which were opposed to our electoral program; but at the last moment, Eduardo Santos agreed to the meeting with Geroa Bai at the plenary that was held on his own. On the day of the plenary session, Eduardo Santos asked me to sign those amendments and I said no. Finally, Geroa Bai carried out the amendments in full, but with the support of UPN, pp and PSN, respectively.

Iglesias -Montero and his chalet have been the last and complicated chapter of the series to be issued in Spain.
Iglesias said that, even if he arrived at the Moncloa, when he left there he would return to Vallecas, and then go with the theme of the chalet... I think that they have gone a long way from reality, among other things, when entering a kind of mortgage, since economic freedom is very important for ideological freedom. He has moved away from that world that wants to transform and, therefore, it is very difficult to understand and replace it. Politics is a conflict, and if you confront power, it's also going to oppose you. Paul and Irene have lost the north, but the most serious thing is that they have brought their incongruity to the party’s bases, blackmailing: “You vote for me or I leave”, “or you accept what you have done or you are with far right media.”

In general terms, how has the Government of Navarra acted in compliance with the programmatic agreement?In the structural problems, this government has not made any profound changes and, through Ayerdi, the PNV
has had control of its economic position. The relationship with concerted education has remained the same, infrastructure policies have been similar and the Public Enterprises Corporation has also acted similarly. We have made progress in tax policy in staggered payment, but not in corporate tax, especially in large companies; we continue to collect five times more taxes from people than from companies. Nor did they want to touch anything about unjust debt. What is the point of having democratic power if you then do not dare to confront those economic powers that blackmail you?

You're practically saying there's been no change, but there's been, and people have noticed.
Yes, of course, there has been change. The biggest change that has taken place has been the expulsion of UPN from the Government of Navarra. We have also shown that between different parties it is possible to reach government agreements. That the patriotism that has been cursed here can be in government and nothing happens. But there are those who think that it can go much further and that sometimes a calm change can freeze the change. Now Geroa Bai says that the PSN must be integrated into the change, but until now the PSN has fully joined UPN in the most important issues, whether in the identity or in the economic.

Your confrontation is of great concern to the society of change, with the very equal forces wondering now on the street what is going to pasar.En all our
internal conflict this has worried me especially. We can, strong and united, was key to change, and now the party has put aside a very large sector. Where are we going? Who do we vote for?

Are you in mind creating a new match?
No. It's another lie in the current direction for us to be upset. In the group Now Navarre -Orain Mugituz you can group the people of Podemos and those who are not, that was the function of Podemos at first. We can become one more party: I wanted to put an end to the 78 regime, but now it risks becoming a new crutch. There are many of us who oppose this and sooner or later we will have to reinvent the initial We Can.

But neither you, nor much more, will be able to present Podemos.
That's right. The agreement is being stitched together with Ezker Batua, Batzarre and Equo; rather than a candidacy from the grassroots, a plenary that is being held upside down. To deepen the change that took place in Navarre, we would need a broad front, based on the programmatic objectives, respecting our peculiarities and the right to decide here.