He has always said that “our goal was to achieve the liberation of blacks, not equality before the law, which meant accepting the system as such.” From this perspective, how does the Black Lives Matter movement value?

The first thing I have to say is that it's not a movement, I don't know why they call it movement. What tells us that there's a movement behind that traol? But, even if it is an organised initiative, what are its objectives? Most of them had taken refuge in Hillary Clinton. How can you protect Clinton by being black? This is an initiative against police brutality. They use slogans like “hands up, don’t throw”, but where is revolutionary thinking? I therefore see nothing for profound change, neither actions, nor programmes.

He has also criticized liberal feminism.

Well, I don't know what that is, but the feminist-o movement, in EE.UU, depends on the bourgeois white ideals. They talk to you about reproductive rights, but they gave us a family plan without taking into account who Margaret Sanger was. He was in favour of Eugenics, of eliminating certain populations, and opened the first abortion clinics in Harlem.

On the other hand, when they say that they want to break the glass ceiling, they mean that they want to participate in the business world so that they too have the equality to tread on other people, including women.

And in that movement you won't see any black woman or any Latino, except a few. It's a spontaneous movement of white women, both in the first, second and third waves.

Do you not believe, however, that women have rights to fight?

Of course, this does not mean that I do not think that there are issues that are particularly afflicted by poor women and black and Latino women and that should be addressed as a problem for women. For example, black women are the poorest group in the world. In sub-Saharan Africa, for example, they are poorer than black men everywhere. And nobody talks about those people, like you don't talk about the poor women who care for their children in the United States. And what drives those liberal feminists is their lifestyle. They want to spread their values, as do typical bourgeois thinking, who think that what they think is right and proper.

This is very well seen in the Bill Clinton Social Aid Reform Act. This reform criminalised poor women and people voted in their favour, thinking that it would primarily affect black women. But most people who live on social aid are white, which is the majority in the United States. This law criminalized poor women, left the children of these women without health care, and feminists said nothing.

And here the important thing is to ask what women's main concerns are. Is it our concern to be equal to men? Well, I don't want to be like a general who's killing people in Afghanistan. But I worry that my life chances are limited because I'm a woman and I can't make money because I'm a woman to take care of my children.

What do you think of the #MeToo initiative?

This #MeToo movement is a kind of Hollywood celebrity, and there you see actresses regret that those men have received two million and they only received one million. And in the meantime, they haven't said anything about the women on the street who are dedicated every day to bringing their lives to life. And, on the other hand, all of this has been reflected in the fact that the raped are white. The lives of white women are clearly more important than the lives of black women, and no one is talking about it.

In any case, I say that I am a feminist, yes, how can I not be, because I am a woman! I am oppressed as a woman, as a black and as a poor person. It is true that I have a house that is dignified and sufficient to eat, but in short, I have no control over things that condition me as a woman, as a black man and as a human being.

And what was Black Panther's stance on feminism?

The Black Panthers were very strong in favor of the liberation movement and the struggle of women, as well as gay liberation. We were in favour of the liberation of women, of women being free to define our destiny, of our destiny not being conditioned by whether or not we were married to a man. Many women, if they did not marry a man, did not have enough to live, so the social problem is both economic.

Unlike other revolutionary movements, the Black Panthers attached great importance to the so-called proletariat of feathers, because they were “the most motivated sector to guide the revolution”, in their words. The party decided to educate and politicize these people. How did they manage to “turn ghetto rabies into a revolutionary action”?

I've been working with people who are in jail and who have come out of jail for 20 years. In my opinion, they have the greatest potential to be the vanguard of the revolution. Of course, the masses will also have to join at some point, but the rest of the people are connected to the system. They have or want a job. The others do not want jobs, they are not part of the system, they do not like and they hate the police. They've risked in life and, therefore, they have more potential than a person going to work every day, with their television and Disneyland holidays.

On the other hand, and Marx made a mistake about this in relation to blacks, the proletariat of feathers was for Marx the garbage of the Earth, because he valued the working class. And he didn't just see the slaves as a special kind of black. They formed a class of workers, but without wages. Thus, according to Marx's definition, the current drug traffickers would be comparable to the pimps of his time. That's what we have in black America. Despite having a job, most blacks do not have enough money to be part of the great mass of the proletariat and have to walk in the trapezheus.

The United States is the country with the highest number of prisoners worldwide, with more than 2,120,000. How have you come to the present situation?

The increase in the number of prisoners and the length of the prison is a relatively recent phenomenon, as a result of a 1994 law passed by Bill Clinton to punish repeat offenders. According to this law, the fact of being convicted on three occasions automatically implied a life sentence.

Between 1994 and 2004, the number of prisoners doubled. Half are black, although they account for 13% of the total population. It's not that there's a plan to imprison black people: it's an automatic thing since 1865, when they emerged to capture the slaves that were run by the sheriff's department. And we see that everyone here benefits from this system, and the blacks are always underneath. The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, explained that concept very clearly. He said that blacks were less than whites, because of the gift of mind and body, that their color was unpleasant and that they fired a pestilent odor, so that, by not reaching the level of men, they were not becoming slaves. That has been the basis of the United States since 1710.

Will you explain to us what the industrial racist prison complex consists of?

Prisoners make huge profits, not especially for the things they produce, but for the fortune that they or the state spend. In prison they have everything: phone calls, video calls, clothing, food… they can buy everything, but much more expensive than on the street. And because they don't have money, those same prisoners who wouldn't make any profit on the street, they spend a lot of money. The state of California, for example, spends about 70,000 dollars a year.

It is true that some prisoners work seamlessly. They use them to clean roads, set up gardens, make furniture -- and they don't get paid anything, or very little. And the industrial penitentiary complex is something like the industrial military complex, but with the prisoners. People think it is a system that is more linked to private than private prisons, but not to state-owned prisons. There are a lot of workers working there. In California, for example, jailers make 100,000 dollars a year. Do you think you would like the prison system to disappear? And those workers have their own unions to make sure that jailers don't lose their jobs. And what's the main commodity they have? Prisoners. For them, it is essential to continue filling prisons. There are a lot of people making money at the expense of prisons. Most inmates, in addition, are in prison for economic differences, and blacks are their best lunch, because nobody does anything for them, because they don't have money to pay for procedural costs.

In 2014 he launched the Oakland and the World Enterprises initiative, with the aim of creating lucrative business of the property of ex-inmates and their management. What is the project?

One of the aspects of the oppression that black people suffer in EE.UU. It's that if you've been in jail, when you're out, you're not going to find a job in an uncle's store, or if you're not, because before you get a job, you have to have a criminal record and the employer isn't going to hire you. Therefore, without work, it is very likely that a crime of selling drugs or illegal acts will be committed again and that it will end up in prison again. Faced with this situation, and with the support of a representative of the City Hall, we managed to create cooperatives owned by ex-prison people and marginalised populations, that is, poor black people.

The initiative is underway and for the time being we have an urban garden. And with the vegetables we've taken out of the vegetable garden, we've set up a food bank. In addition, we want to build affordable housing and we would like the initiative to be repeated in other cities so that people who have left prison have an opportunity.