Let's take a look. What rights do animals have compared to humans? How should we understand those rights?
Nora Barragués: I would not talk about the rights of animals, because it is a concept that is linked to the welfare of animals and because we prefer to talk about the release of animals: it is not a question of asking for better conditions for larger animals and cages, but of directly putting an end to cages. After all, when we talk about welfare, animal freedom is not guaranteed, because the discourse behind it is that animals live and die without suffering, but what we say is that animals must live free.
Xabier Arratibel: We start from the fact that animals are not a human means, but an individual. And that means not using animals to eat, dress up, have a good time… In no case. We are abolitionists in favour of abolishing the use of animals. Terminology is important and often the media do not use it well: we do not talk about animal abuse, we go further, we reject the use of animals.

You put specism at the same time as machismo or racism.
N. Barragués: Discrimination on the basis of race or sex of other animals for belonging to other species, not human.

And the struggles against machismo, racism and other discrimination take you into account, or do you feel that this is a secondary struggle?
10. Arratibel: It is true that as a political struggle, the anti-specista movement remains a little marginalized, but as we share spaces and demands, we are increasingly being taken into account. In other times, the feminist movement also suffered grudge and contempt for other struggles, such as the man-led leftist movements, and today it is a very powerful movement. I believe that in the fight for animals the road will be similar, we are still in the comienzos.La difficulty with the other movements is that those of us who fight for other animals
are of a privileged species, because the cows that are in the cage are not able to create a movement, the oppressed subjects themselves are not able to make a revolution and, therefore, it is more difficult to mobilize the masses.
N. Barragués: And that's why it may look like a second-level movement, but other collectives have begun to integrate ours and knit together. This intersectionality is important because we cannot base our struggles on discrimination against others, it is inconsistent.
10. Arratibel: It's very interesting for us to share spaces with other political actors like txosnas. We are at parties from different peoples, sharing messages and learning from each other. In short, we align ourselves with other movements that seek social justice.
N. Barragués: Because it's a matter of justice, and we have to seek justice not only when we see our oppressed interests and our freedoms, but also that of everyone; for that, empathy is necessary.
10. Arratibel: We have a lot to learn from each other. I, for example, am also an ecologist, and the most contagious thing in the world is the industrial exploitation of animals, the consumption of animals, but from environmentalism it does not get underway. Much less infected by a vegan in the allten than by a carnivore riding a bicycle. So the first thing that the ecologist, the mother who is concerned about the land, has to do is stop eating animals.

Under the motto Festak, celebrate the festivities, release animals. Last year’s protests gave much to talk…
X. Arratibel: All the protests are positive, because they serve to put on the table the problems that should concern society. The protest was most echoed in Hernani’s sokamuturra, but not by us, but by other factors: we were assaulted, the cowboy branch broke and began to bleed… But it is clear that we are not victims, the real victim is an animal used there, and the attack demonstrates the lack of arguments on the part of the sokamuturra defenders. We have made many other protests: against the dragging of oxen, fishing championships, etc., to make the issue visible and activate the people.
N. Barragués: When we make protests, we meet everything. You can create tension in the moment, but we also have nice experiences, because people are approaching to take the fact sheets that we distribute, or when we see children listening carefully to our explanations…
X. Arratibel: Yes, the point of tension is common, because neighbors and neighbors often feel that we are going to break the sokamuturra they have always done to have a good time, but it is a privilege obtained unjustly. We also have positive moments, like when people come to thank us or help us.

Is the use of animals in our festivities rooted? Is our culture very special?
N. Barragués: Yes, quite specific, but as in all societies. We're very used to exploiting animals around the world, and it's hard to change that. At the same time, knowing that our society is a privileged society, we have the opportunity to choose to live without beating anyone. I do not know to what extent I can demand that a poor be vegan when he has trouble getting food, but those of us in a privileged situation have it easier and we have no arguments to maintain that discrimination.

At parties not only protest, but you work to promote another holiday model, offering alternatives.
10. Arratibel: We work with the party commissions and propose activities without animals: In Orereta the tests of man and woman instead of the drag of oxen, the cooking course, the vegan menu in the txosna; the giant ball rings in Hernani…
N. Barragués: Our goal is to enter and be part of the party commission, work with other groups and make our proposals. We want to have a good time, of course, but consciously.
10. Arratibel: It is more effective than asking for the replacement of an act that comes from outside and uses the animal for another, to go to the party commission as one more. We've done that in Hernani and Orereta, and we've seen very powerful changes.
N. Barragués: Yes, because it allows us to work more deeply. If the committee of parties tells us that in the sokamuturra the animal does not suffer, we try to make him see our attitude. In Orereta, for example, the Txosnas Commission is already defined as anti-specista, among other values. And these kinds of things show us that our message is gradually coming. Or, for example, it's a joy to see that without an anti-specist group behind it, a certain txosna has decided to offer a vegan opportunity, a sign that people are becoming aware.

Food is another key. To be animalistic, do you have to be vegan?
N. Barragués: Yes, because I cannot claim the freedom of the cows while like a cow or I took their milk (because the cows do not give milk voluntarily). It is a question of consistency. It can be a process, each one will set the pace before I was vegetarian for a few years before I became vegan, and it's better to be vegetarian than to eat animals, but for us the ultimate goal is to be vegan. What we do say is that it is not a matter of fashion or diet, but a political attitude against discrimination.
10. Arratibel: From a young age, they teach us to respect and love animals, and at the same time we eat. It is inconsistent.

The problem is the harsh conditions of the nurseries and slaughterhouses seen in the videos, the exploitation of animals in our food system, or the feeding of animals themselves?
N. Barragués: We maintain the initial message: it is not a matter of welfare, it is not to kill animals without suffering, because in the latter case too humans are deciding when and how to kill this animal, we put their life in our hands.
10. Arratibel: From an anti-capitalist point of view, it is better the hen that grows ecologically in the farmhouse, next to the industrial nursery, but from an ethical point of view, the two animals end up without head; both are slaves treated better or worse, mediums.
N. Barragués: It serves to calm our consciences, to think “this hen lives without suffering”, but we place the debate in another area.
10. Arratibel: In fact, the search for welfare and the best conditions in the exploitation of animals strengthens the idea that animals are goods. In addition, years of struggle show that it is of no use: Large groups such as PETA have done a great deal of work in the fight to improve animal conditions and the consequence is that we are killing more and more animals to eat.

Someone will say that, within the food chain, it is natural for animals to eat animals, just like other species. At the top of the chain, we humans have become lords, but would it be lawful to eat animals sustainably?
N. Barragués: Being sustainable doesn't mean being fair.
10. Arratibel: The sustainable concept serves to whitewash the exploitation of animals, but it is the individual who feels and suffers that animal, and to live well we have no need to eat. The trophic chain is a myth, because the human being has in his hand to decide how he is going to feed himself, and in this sense he has a moral responsibility to choose an untapped diet.
N. Barragués: The other animals act as instincts and we have the ability to be aware of our food and to feed ourselves without suffering anyone, why not do so?

In addition to shows and food, the other two pillars for the abolition of the use of animals are experimentation with clothing and animals. What can we citizens do to deal with it?
N. Barragués: If a garment is made of leather, so will the label, like wool, etc., in which we can pay attention. On the other hand, large animalist associations usually publish updated lists of the products and companies in which they experiment with animals, to which we can deny. Experimentation is, however, a complex subject…

And from the institutions, how can we influence the fight for animals?
N. Barragués: Our job is to raise awareness and we do not believe that things change from institutions, it is the people who change things, and it is the demand and the pressure of the citizens that drives the institutions to do something. Before the law, awareness is going on.
10. Arratibel: Donostia-San Sebastian bullfighting is a clear example of this. They were removed from the City Hall for one party, and when the City Hall changed caps, they were relocated to another party.

Every time a bullfighter dies (like Orduña's) during the bullfighting season, it is usually a controversy, as many animalists say the bullfighter deserved it.
10. Arratibel: The idiots are everywhere. I am not glad that a bullfighter has died.
N. Barragués: First of all, when the bull kills a bullfighter against what many people think, it won't win the bull, because the bullfighting tradition says that that bull and its whole family have to die because that caste is dirty. On the other hand, the torero has decided to enter to kill and has died as a result of that decision, while the bull has defended what it has done, because it wanted to live.

What do you think of being animals at home?
N. Barragués: To the extent that we seek the release of animals, it may seem inconsistent that at home we have a domesticated animal, but at the same time, if we leave a cat loose in today's society that we build, in our cities and roads, in most cases it would not be able to adapt to that area, it would somehow condemn that cat. In that sense, is it legitimate that someone should not be given all that freedom to protect their lives? I think so. Recently, cows released by someone who had pups appeared in Jaizkibel. The institutions agreed to put an end to all.
10. Arratibel: It is a complex issue. We don't identify with the animal industry of the company and we find it unacceptable to rape a dog to have cute puppies to sell them, but because nobody wants an animal to be adopted that will die in the kennel, is it wrong? It is to give another life to that individual who suffers, and therefore the most interesting thing would be to adopt a dog that nobody wants (because it is old, because it lacks a leg…).

In Askekintza’s view, all protests are positive, “because they serve to put on the table the problems that should concern society.” To influence holiday activities, they aim to be part of the party commission and to be one more, to work with other groups, proposing changes from within.