No limits. Therefore, a group created for external cooperation.

Now, on the one hand, we have a project in El Salvador, which we are moving forward with a group of women from there. Create water management systems to villages, perform sanitation through ecotechnology… Simple but necessary technology for them. We try to make it into the hands of the community, not its rulers. And we try to incorporate the gender perspective into our work. And it's that technology is not neutral. At least in terms of gender. Technology is developed from the perspective of men.

Maybe because it has a male target. Dominating the world?

I would say yes, what you want to achieve with technology is to master nature. But what do we mean by technology? We often associate the concept with high-tech, but there are other technologies related to care, which we call craftsmanship. But if we hadn't created clay pots, we wouldn't have the life that we now have. And the needle and scissors… Many technologies are “hidden” because only women use them. In short, some technologies have more power to transform nature and others less. There's what we call technology for human development, and it's using those ideas. We can't just create the technology, just by creating. And along with that, another thought: Who should have the competence of technology, who and for whom should it create? We believe that society should have this competence.

Here, too, you work.

Among other things, we do courses to explain what international cooperation is, because sometimes people don't know very well what it is.

Do we have false beliefs in cooperation?

People often come in saying “I know a lot, I want to help and I want to go to El Salvador to do my project.” We believe that this kind of collaboration is sometimes good, but that it has to be more transformative. We have to think about why these countries are as they are and to those who come to us we say “perhaps it is not necessary to go to help, but to change our way of life here”. We want collaboration to be parallel, non-asymmetrical, solidary but without charity. We prefer that we manage our projects, but that the people there run them, because there are also good engineers there.

In engineering schools, in addition to engineering, is thought also taught?

Mainstream's thinking is a techno-fantasy: technology can fix everything, keep you quiet and keep living as before, there will be no problems. We're going to invent something to solve climate change, to consume less energy ... And we think a more critical vision is missing. We take courses in engineering schools, and the students tell us: “All they have taught us has been how to build this and others, but they have never told us what to do.” A reservoir, for example: you learn what turbines to use, what calculations to do… But you are not told who the affected are or who benefits that swamp.

You mentioned the promise of a technological route to consume less energy. Renewables are constantly growing, but many have warned that renewables are not enough to maintain current lifestyles.

The problem is not technological, but the social system. We couldn't consume as much as we could. The pace of life must be slowed down and other values strengthened. There are things that can be done without consuming so much energy: reading, listening to music, going to the theater, learning theater…

They are made, however…

Yes, but they're not as attractive as flying to New York. And we can't all go on vacation to New York.

Are you not entitled to go to New York?

No, because we couldn't all do it. If we wanted to do it all together, there wouldn't be enough energy. We have the right to move, but not in any way. And on the other hand, at the prices that we are going to go to New York, oil must be exploited at a very cheap price elsewhere in the world and violate its rights. The same is true of mobiles, computers, and some change them almost every year. For us to buy and renew our equipment at a low price, the rights of others are trampled underfoot.

The aim is not for the consumer to feel continually guilty.

No, the goal is to be conscious. Do you need a mobile phone? Yes, but use consciously and don't buy one each year, and if you can, ask, where has this come from? The phone, the tomato or the clothes. As consumers, we have the strength to change things. "What do we want technology for?" -- that's the question we need to ask. For what and for whom. If it is to improve our quality of life, let us use it, but if it is to fulfill our desires by stepping on the rights of other people, then…