It is 31 years since his brother Mikel was murdered. You spoke on a number of occasions, asked by journalists and not journalists. Is there anything you haven't said in this 31 year?

A lot of things. However, we say things to say, don't believe it. But I'm sure a lot of things are left unsaid. Sometimes because they don't come and others because they don't care about the world. For example, our stories of childhood, our stories of youth -- the world doesn't care about that, but what happened with Mikel.

How many brothers and sisters did you have at home?

We were seven. Michael was the oldest, I was the second, Miguel and I were always together. We were going to school together, working together, helping my father in cattle. We were already together in adolescence. We were always together, although as a young man each took their way. Mikel went to work in San Sebastian and I left to Pamplona.

In addition to you, I have seen your sisters in the media telling you Mikel's case.

For example, Arantxa speaks in tributes. Otherwise, Idoia and Begoña, the smallest of the house, the twins, have also appeared in newspapers here or there.

Do everyone count the same “case”?

… When we went to the Parliament of Navarre, for example, we talked to each other, because we all have to say things a little the same, but at home it costs a lot, a lot, to talk about it… Now, when we are doing the documentary, a little more has been said. However, I say to him, it is very difficult to talk about him. Being a tribute, a tribute, there Arantxa will speak two words, and nothing else. It's not a delicious subject, no. We rarely talk about it. Maybe it would be better to pick them up, talk and empty them. I have concrete experiences, like my family, because at that time they were in the house of Orbaizeta, and that was where most of what happened. If someone was going somewhere, they would go to Orbaizeta, to our house. I, on the other hand, already lived alongside Pamplona. My mother, for example, was not fond of saying that, “I don’t want to recount that!” she said.

When did your parents die?

Mother in 1998, father in 1992.

How did Mikel's death affect them?

They had been made on horseback. The mother suffered a terrible depression, it took years to recover. His father, for his part, said he wanted to die to go next to Mikel. He was a very strong, very strong man… Those who knew him always said: “The health of this man! It has to last a hundred years!” And then she gave her cancer and took it in two days.

You were sick with breast cancer.

Yes.

They say that stress is a disease among the causes of cancer.

That's what they say. They tell me that my cancer is a consequence of that. The disease originated in the year 2000. I don't know if that's true. There are people who know more than I do whether or not there is a relationship.

He just mentioned the documentary.

Yes. Then everyone has their own words, and I, for example, talk about transmission, because I had two daughters at that time, and how my topic was passed on to the daughters.

You were in Pamplona when Mikel was arrested on 26 November 1985.

My mother was also with me because my father-in-law was in the residence. In the morning, they called by telephone to report that the two brothers in the house, Aitor and Patxi, were in detention. I had already gone to work and my mother called me there. They told me at work and they let me out. We talked to attorney Patxi Zabaleta, we asked for a habeas corpus and went to the Pamplona headquarters. They told us they were there. “Mikel also has to know!” we said, and we called home, to Donostia, where he worked. But nobody would take it. He called the San Sebastian Tramway company where he worked, and there he had nothing. It had to go to work, but it hadn't come up. We called the bride's house and found out that Idoia Aierbe was also detained, who had been taken by the civilian guards. “Mikel will also be detained.” In Pamplona we were with Zabaleta and in Donostia we were with Iñigo Iruin. They went to Intxaurrondo, they were denied that Mikel was there. Even there, they told their mother that if she had lost her child, she would go to the office of lost objects.

Hence the name of the documentary! Lost objects!

Yes… “Lost Objects”… Aitor and Patxi were released at two and three in the afternoon, free, without charge. I remember eating in the residence with my mother-in-law when the two brothers appeared. On the contrary, Prime Manolo and Idoia, who lived with Mikel, were transferred to Madrid under the Anti-Terrorism Act.

Mikel's corpse appeared on 15 December. What happened during those days?

A lot of stories in those days. For a start, they denied I was in Intxaurrondo. Subsequently, the official version was opened that he had been arrested and that during the interrogation Mikel had voluntarily confessed that he had a hole in Endarlatsa – they never said it was armaments, they were explosives – and that they took Mikel in his search with three civilian guards. Nobody can think of getting in the head that the detainee and three civilian guards are looking for a hole, but they also said that was what was going on. A civil guard in front, with two behind him, Mikel beat one and threw himself into the river. Amazing… The next day, the clandestine union of the Civil Guard said he had been killed in Intxaurrondo so he wouldn’t look for him.

And you?

We wanted to believe that he had escaped! Then, one of the civilian guards at the Auritz headquarters also visited us at the house of Orbaizeta, saying that on the other side, in that town they had seen Mikel on more than one occasion. But of course that was not the case. How I was going to be there. The Red Cross of the Sea tracked the shore that Mikel allegedly sneaked, her friends searched for Mikel on the mountain… And so, in the place where she had searched for the Red Cross the day before, Mikel appeared, dead.

Twenty days.

No bare feet, no naked feet, no fish food. It appeared completely dressed, with the two shoes intact. Mikel hadn't spent 20 days in the water.

What is its version?

They had killed him under torture when they were bathing, because Cousin Manolo heard Michael's cries and his boots. Idoia also saw something underneath the plastic and said it was Mikel for his constitution. And the comments of the civil guards: “It’s really bad, it’s gone!” Things like that ... What Manolo said to our mother: “Aunt, Mikel had no strength to escape. After what I heard, Mikel had no strength to do anything.”

And on December 15, when the corpse appeared?

He called us Luis Roldan, CEO of the Civil Guard. It touched me to pick up the phone. He told me that a corpse had appeared with the wives put in Endarlaza. I didn't want to believe it. “Surely it’s my brother?” and “Who should it be?” Soon after, the Efe agency called: “And now what do you say?” “For they have thrown it into the water to give credibility to its version.” Then the press announced that they were going to file a complaint against us for defamation, a friend told me. Subsequently, the President of the Spanish Government, Felipe González, said that he understood that our words were the result of family pain and that he was not going to prosper with the complaint.

The journalist who was then working on Donostia-San Sebastián's Herri Irratia broadcast said he was the first of the journalists to appear since Mikel's disappearance.

We knew things through radio and the press. At work, I'd put the news report on an hourly basis to see if we knew something new.

And when did Miguel appear?

Anger, malaise, disability… Everything! On the one hand, we are “happy” to see it appear. He had died, but he was worse dead and lost. In this regard, I hope that now the Naparra family will see the light, after so many years.

In these 31 years, in memory of Mikel Zabraise, have you had any help, support, recognition?

A lot of people have helped us, they've helped us a lot. We have nothing but gratitude for them. Thanks to them, Mikel's case had a great impact and our complaint reached Madrid, and eventually forced him to say: It appears or will be found. There are some who have opposed it. On the part of the institutions, nothing until we were called Glencree. It was a great recognition for us to call him. Officially it's nothing, but it was the recognition that the institution was doing, recognizing that Mikel had been murdered. Little by little, this has been moving forward. Together with other victims who were in the Parliament of Navarre, this year we have been in the Gasteiz Parliament. We were invited from the Secretariat of Peace and Coexistence and we went. To heed an institution means a lot to us. It helps you a lot.

In March last year the Parliament of Navarre passed the Law on Victims of Police Violence, but the Spanish Government appealed to it in December. This year, the Basque Parliament has also passed such a law.

And the CAV, which has also been appealed by the Spanish Government, has been appealed. Instead of recognizing it, resort to it. They don't want to bring the truth to the surface. I do not know what the consequences may be of accepting the truth. If not, I do not know what they are resorting to. The Parliament of Navarre passed the law, was appealed by the Government of Spain, and when the law of the CAV was approved, we thought: “Will you dare to do the same here? Previously, during the Franco regime, the Basque Parliament had already recognised the victims of political violence. They did not do it against him, nor will they appeal it, they will not dare…”. Yes, they have dared, they have appealed.

Will you ever know the truth?

Will you confess what you did? We have no doubt, unless it is a nuance. We know what the truth is, and there are the confidences that are published in the press and all the others. But that is where this information remains. I don't know if you're going to take other steps. Will the papers ever be classified? It is all a question and a question in that regard, but what happened with Mikel has already been told. There is a press release by Arkaitz Almorza on the 25th anniversary of Mikel's death, which tells everything. We know what happened with Mikel, there's no confession.

On what day was Mikel born?

2 August.

What happens on August 2 at home?

Nothing. The children called her Mima, and they'll say, “Today is Mima’s birthday!” It is always mentioned. “Today I would have done years!”