On 4 June demonstration in Pamplona. There is no UPN in the government. Why a demonstration?

The most appropriate way to respond to this situation is to look at the motto of the demonstration, Bide eman euskarari. We want to live in Basque. Let yourself be led by the Basque Country if you have two messages, one for the government. We know where we came from, that when there was a change of government, many expectations emerged, that change would be in Euskera and in Euskera. It is true, and we say it, there have been some changes, there is another gesture from the government. We have seen it from Euskalgintza, the doors open to us.

Like before.

The first doors wouldn't open for us either. We always say, we must recognise the things that are done, but we believe that more effective steps should be taken. Why? We came from where we came from, we all know the evil policy that UPN has made against the citizens. Tackling all these injustices would require bolder action.

We want to take advantage of the demonstration to say to the government: “Bide eman euskarari!” and we will be there. I am reminded of the demonstration we held in 2010. “Enough!”, “You reject us!”, “There is no right!” were the messages of the time. This is another thing, it makes a positive sense, we come to say “here we are.” In theory, we should act with complicity.

I know that it is perhaps difficult for the public to understand the message, because in Navarre we went out to denounce it when we went out to the streets, and this time we are not going to ask them to denounce it. We believe that there may be real possibilities to give way to the Basque world, between the Basque world, society and government.

You say that the motto has two messages.

The second, Bide eman Euskarari, because it is justice, it is necessary to guarantee social balance. When the Government of Navarra has taken and made some interesting decisions, we were surprised by the reaction of sectors that speak in the name of justice, that speak of non-discrimination. No, no, sorry, we disagree. Defending linguistic rights is a commitment to social balance, social justice and equality. It makes us incomprehensible how they have risen on other issues, “yes, yes, we need a fairer and non-discriminatory Navarre among the citizens”, and when the government has made a gesture in terms of language to end some apartheid, how they have changed!

Is the government slower than you think?

Yes. We are all aware that UPN was going to fly the flag with the Basque Country, which with any large or small measure UPN was going to be launched. Sparza's statements at the UPN Congress were very significant: “If we return to the government, we will close the schools in the non-Basque area.” We knew that. But it's that UPN is fluttering and we can't be frightened. We are talking about basic rights, and we are right, and I am not talking in political terms, those who have now dared claim the same thing when they claim social justice. On the one hand, UPN hovered a flag with that one tema.Por on the other side (and we are more concerned), the position of one of the four parties that signed the programme agreement does not seem logical to us.

Not all parties have the same position. Is your Left-Ezkerra message?

They say that government is no government of anyone. I have been told by all parties. What they say is that we have a programmatic agreement, and it's up to the government to manage that agreement. But that agreement has a big problem, because, by disagreement, the Vascuence Law has not been addressed. It is unacceptable. For decades Navarre society has repeatedly revealed that recognition of the different rights of citizenship of Tudela and the Baztan Valley cannot be accepted. The theoretically changing aspects are placed around the table and... (makes signs that the role of the table falls), they fall off. They say: “No, there are discrepancies here.” Does the Fundamental Rights Regulation and the Drawer of Discrepancies Include?

We are also concerned about the issues on which the four parties agree, as I shared that the restrictive decrees put in place by UPN were to be suspended. These decrees are still in force.

What is the most urgent thing?

UPN managed by decree that the Basque Country would disappear from the mixed area they call. The day after its creation, the labels in Basque were removed from all the buildings of the Navarra administration. That is still in force in Navarre.

The most urgent thing is the repeal of this Decree. I thought the first government they would do would be to take theirs. This decree has had a great symbolic burden in Navarra: “You’re not going to see the Basque.”

He was surprised at the Left-Ezkerra attitude.

There are positions that do not correspond to its basic principles and let me say one thing. I believe that what they say about language rights goes against the basic principles.

Not only with the Law of the Basque Country, but with the unique list, with the call for employment... UPN knows what it is, but the stance of other parties has been more surprising [Left-Ezkerra and Podemos]. It is very serious. Left-Ezkerra has used the same argument as UPN. The modification of the Vascuence Law was promoted by the Left-Ezkerra. If you are going to make a change in the legal corpus, you must know that political action must be taken to do so. If you believe that in the public school of Fustiñana or Cascante the right to study in Euskera should be guaranteed, I think that there will be posts in which it is detected that the knowledge of the Basque will be compulsory, that it will require teachers. Oh no, that's discriminatory. So how are you going to guarantee those rights? Please, we have to be serious. We cannot go looking for the photo, saying that “we have been the ones in the non-Vascophony area that made it possible for children to learn Basque in public schools”. Yes, but they start to take action and get nervous.

He still has nearly three years of government.

The boldest decisions are the ones you have to make at first. After making decisions in the first year, you've got three more years to explain pedagogically why you've done it. On the other hand, decisions taken in the first year are blurred in the next three years. This powerful decision has been half-forgotten in the last year. And the last year is to open the reservoirs.

Is the mandate going to be a lost option?

I have no doubt about that. I have hope. That is why we have decided to speak out. We are not going to denounce it. Was your first question very logical, isn't UPN and the manifestation? We believe that there are still real possibilities, if there is will. That is why we want to show that an important part of society, that society that wants to live in Basque, is willing to help. It is difficult to explain, but the demonstration today and the one we did in 2010 are very different in character. Now, it can be harder to convey to people. It's much easier to say, "UPN out!"

This demonstration is a demonstration to the government that if you take courageous measures you will have social protection, you will have support and we ask you to take courageous measures.