In 1984 you published the simplicity Nahiko.

At the time, it was unsuccessful. We republished in 1998, the year in which it achieved great success, with an extensive article by a journalist from a major press. The power of the media is enormous, it is regrettable to see that almost everyone is in favour of maintaining the system.

Less consumption, less spending, therefore less need for work. That means more free time.

Yes, to sum up, this is the desired simplicity. Unlike the 1980s, the issue of the environment cannot be ruled out at present. It's certain that on a limited planet, we can't constantly survive. It has often been presented as a solution. But I am very clear that it is not enough. Everyone has to align their consumption with their values, but, although that individual gesture is essential, it is not enough.

What is to be added?

It's an unequal battle. On one side we have strong companies, which control the media and governments, and on the other we, the humble citizens. At the time, cars were imposed on us. Between the 1930s and 50s, National City Lines bought tram companies from 45 major cities in the United States. The NCL was created by companies in the automotive sector: wheel manufacturers, buckwheat companies, car manufacturers. The organization of towns and cities or the poor service of public transport continue to force us to take the car. Planned obsolescence is also there. Also artificial obsolescence, with an amount of $500,000 per year for advertising. Almost enough for weaponry.

And in front of it, the humblest citizens.

Yes. We need a massive movement that brings with it a paradigm shift. To do so, we started the movement of growth in the 1970s. The latter is based on five pillars: democracy, because we have to regain the right to decide; collective, because we have to respond to the needs in a group; local, because we have to be autonomous; social justice, because we cannot continue with injustice; and simplicity, because there are consumptions to be put aside.

How do we push this paradigm shift?

Three levels of activity. One: on an individual level. Although it is not enough, it is very important, because we are making the new society a reality. At the neighborhood level: to make democracy a reality we need small communities, the future is not in the megápoles. Thirdly, in politics. Political ambition is needed for change. The latter leads to good sense. We need to get involved in politics.

It is becoming clear that the finance is the one that directs the policy.

Yes, by the way, governments are increasingly subject to the financial and are being weakened by force.

The paradigm shift is difficult.

We must carry out long-term work with the aim of transforming the political parties. At the same time, we must continue to fight the absurd measures. For example, we have to bring absolutely the movement against the oil pipes in Quebec.

Will we do so before it is late?

I am very pessimistic, or rather realistic. If we look at the COP21 summit, it is clear that governments do not want to take whatever action is necessary. In general, citizens do not want to adopt another lifestyle either. We are in a vicious circle, because in the end they both share the same objective of consumption. They are trying to match capitalism, but it is not the solution! Both in the construction of the car and in the production of the electric car, an electric car will pollute in the same way. And if we had no choice, then we would protest.

I mean, when the time comes ...

Yeah, that's it. Maliciously, thousands of people will suffer and will first be poor. The conclusions are being dealt with by a number of citizens. By 2050, the sea range is expected to rise by one meter, so 600 million people are affected by the wind from their homes to escape extreme danger. The disaster of our civilisation brings us at a dizzying rate. Rotational measures should be taken, but we do not seem to be about to take them.

You're also in the network of cities in transition.

Individually, it is clear that we will not survive, but that communities organized collectively and autonomously will survive. In this network are cities which, in view of the inaction of governments, take their future into their hands. On the part of those who lead us to ruin, we cannot wait for the exits.