Between July and January, 715 sanctions have been received under the Moorish Law in Hego Euskal Herria. In general, what kind of complaints are they?

It is, above all, a question of mild disobedience, obstruction of police action and insults to agents. The reasons will be similar here too. For example, in the dismantling of Kortxoenea in Donostia-San Sebastián, a young man was taking pictures with his mobile phone and a local police officer told him that if he did not stop recording he would impose a fine. The young man stopped recording and is already, but giving up a right. Minister of the Interior, Jorge Fernández, said in an interview in El País that it is possible to take images, their use is what is punishable. Therefore, that agent, the Minister of the Interior, showed less respect for freedoms.

In another case, at Plaza Zabalburu in Bilbao, a woman observed how a local police officer brutally identified an immigrant. The woman said she wanted to keep looking. He was sentenced to a fine of EUR 700 for impeding the work of municipal police officers.

Ahotsa.info was also threatened with 35,000 euros by the presence of paisano policemen – the uniformed wearing their face covered – in a photo of a police intervention. It was a photograph taken in San Fermín, the journalist who wasn't going to look for those photos, didn't even know that those cops could be there, but the media got a warning.

It has been called white repression, which is affected by the Mordaza Act. Why?

Other types of repression are more spectacular, making social communication and the search for solidarity easier. In the Moorish Law, the police announce in some cases the complaint at the time and in others not, as has now happened to Axier López. Arresting and spending a few months in prison can be more supportive, but a fine, economic repression, can have more influence, is more demobilizing. That is why they have now entered into force, in the context of a great loss of social rights. The Mordaza Law seeks self-censorship and limits ourselves.

The European Council has shown its concern about the Law, the Basque Parliament rejected it, the Congress also recently, the social movements oppose it… Do you see the possibility of pushing back?

This macro-political level makes it difficult. In the PSOE-C’s pact, the PSOE proposes that some articles be withdrawn, not that the whole law be withdrawn. The strength to change things must be on the citizens and, moreover, by seeing how the relationships of force are, we have no choice but to disobey that law and implement our rights.

At the same time it is very unpopular, which opens up possibilities of disobedience. Is this alternative being used?

Clearly not, because the fines are still coming. The people who work on this have not managed to socialise the seriousness of the issue. There have been many criticisms and initiatives, but not enough to reject a law like this. The institutions here, for example, can take the decision not to apply that law, but they are being implemented, and that is absolutely denouncing. In most of the above cases, the Municipal Police has made use of the law. If we continue to do what we citizens have always done, we are in disobedience to this law.

From the Eleak movement, what would you recommend to a person who has been fined for any reason?

These are not personal problems and should therefore not be dealt with in isolation, but the solution should be as collective as possible. At least the fine must be reported and denounced. Pay or not? It's very hard to say what needs to be done, because if you don't pay, there are property kidnappings. We have to prepare a social mattress to support these situations. Boosting mobilisation and the network is very important and we may not be able to reverse the law, but we can ensure that it is not implemented.