Automatically translated from Basque, translation may contain errors. More information here. Elhuyarren itzultzaile automatikoaren logoa

"If we accept the fine, we would open the door wide to punish the next ones."

  • In the middle of the Zurrunbiloa we caught Axier López (1979, Barakaldo), a fellow of ARGIA. It is the first journalist to whom the Moorish Law has been applied in the Basque Country. After several interviews, on Friday afternoon, we took the opportunity to speak calmly. Soon, Argia will be six years old. It is very clear that the Moorish Law must be combated and says that it is strong thanks to the solidarity received since the case has been collectivised.
(Arg:Dani Blanco)

I had just heard that it was an honour that a law as unfair as ours would have punished it. Were you serious?

This law violates rights such as the right to information and expression in relation to journalism. Receiving a fine for the mere fact of doing our work, I do not know if it is an honour but I am proud of what we have done, and even more proud of the response that so many citizens, political movements and popular movements that are neither journalists nor journalists have given us.

What do you want to get with grief?

The most dangerous thing is to spread fear. If in cases like this there is no positive and collective response, the ghost of grief may remain. If a journalist has to think twice about reporting what he has in front of his eyes, it is a sign that this punitive law has won and we have done something wrong. We have to deal with fear from the very beginning and if our case serves this purpose we will be happy.

A crime of journalism? Where are we going?

Journalism or information as a crime. With some photos anybody can make a tweet through social media, doesn't have to be a journalist or needs five years of study. Behind there is an intention to hide some uncomfortable issues for power. In our profession they want to represent signs of crime, so that we are ourselves those who censure us.

It has received broad support. The multitude of Basque media, the Hekimen association, the Basque Association of Journalists, the Spanish Association of Journalists, the Club PEN, the news has been received in international media... How does the issue live?

We were surprised by the fine, because at ARGIA we've treated a thousand cases like this one of detention. We knew this case would give a lot to talk about, because there was a background. Journalism is not a crime, for example, it was potent from the journalistic point of view, as we joined 470 journalists, photographers, university professors, facing the Mordaza Law and addressing the issue of Iraitz Salegi. But we didn't expect that, in addition to crossing the borders of Euskal Herria, we would achieve so many accessions. We haven't found anyone in journalism who fits this fine. That says it all. The solidarity received has been a reflection of the fact that at the political and social level this PP has remained only defending itself.

Have you felt the lack of a sector?

The pp is alone, but it has some support, as it has won the elections. It has the support of the economic sectors, which are in direct contact with some media. It is these media that are silent in the face of such cases. We also have to talk about silence, and as a close case we can consider Vocento. Being one of the first journalists convicted in the Spanish state of the Basque Country, most Vocento media have not even mentioned it. They're talking in Mexico, it's just been broadcast by the Associated Press agency, but it hasn't echoed some of the newspapers that are produced in the house itself. Everyone will know what they do, they have every right to do so, but each reflects it in their own practices.

[A few hours after the interview, hundreds of media around the world released the news, including the New York Times and The Guardian]

The Moorish Law has little political legitimacy in the Spanish State and much less in the Basque Country. What can be done?

As with all unfair laws, the fairest thing is to disobey. Journalists and citizens alike. This law has many edges, it is very punitive with civil and political rights, it punishes the use of public space... The problem would be for us to naturalize the ideas that this law proposes. We must continue to implement those rights that we have, disobeying the law, seeking at some point its repeal. And from a journalistic point of view, we should disobey and continue to do our work without asking anyone for permission.

The other day, a pp member said in defense of the measure that they have ultimately applied the law, that there is no problem. So, again we come to the dichotomy of law vs. justice.

"We have to deal with fear from the very beginning, and if our case serves that we will be happy," he added.

For the first time, I agree with what one of the PP says about the Moorish Law. They have applied the law to me, and what they have done to me is legal. The problem is the law that makes it a crime to publicize a public police operation that has been carried out in the full light of the day and allows this kind of barbarism. The fine has not been imposed on me by a judge, it has come to me signed by a pp politician. The delegate of the Spanish Government in Gipuzkoa is one of the politicians with 12% of the votes in the CAV Parliament. I have not had the opportunity to defend myself, to resolve the case. They punish us directly, and then, if they decide to resort to it, they can defend themselves. We will do so, but that must be denounced. They leave us totally helpless. This calls into question the separation of powers in Spain, where is the separation between the political and the judicial power?

A year ago, in the Journalism initiative it's not a crime, you worked very hard in articulating support for Iraitz Salegi. Do you believe in chance?

There is little chance in this holy town. We don't have any tests, but it's a brand. On the day I received the fine, the Congress of Deputies was debating with all the opposition to reverse the Moorish Law. In Euskal Herria, with this initiative we responded a lot to the Moorish Law, and eight months later I am one of the first sanctioned throughout the state. Many arrests such as that of Naroa Ariznabarreta take place inside and outside Euskal Herria. At Google you only have to look for Rodrigo rato Stop to see the police officers at the naked eye in hundreds of fotos.Sali or in all the Spanish media, and the chance that the first means punished in the Spanish state was ARGIA, an independent and small media that works in Basque. This use of the law gives us what to think.

In the ARGIA working group we saw as an assault on us, we decided unanimously not to try to pay the fine and fight the Mordaza Law. Can you explain the plan?

For my part, I do not intend to pay an unfair fine. And because I was working as an ARGIA journalist, as a member of a collective, we were clear that the response should also be collective. We do not accept paying the fine and, in addition to making a public complaint, we believe that this Mordaza Law can also be combated at the judicial level. If ours can serve as a precedent for the cases that may occur, by proposing an adequate and comprehensive fight against the Mordaza Law, it would be a good contribution if it were the first and last case. Welcome if, working in all areas of action, it serves to collaborate on the street, at the judicial level, with the other associations at the social and political level.

In the midst of this whirlwind, how are you?

I'm strong because I see those around me strong. It is not easy to get a fine like that, one option is to pay it and try to deliver it as soon as possible. But if you accept it, you know that you leave the doors open wide open to the following cases, so that they receive a fine of EUR 20,000 instead of 600, as the law allows for sanctions of up to EUR 30,000. From the very beginning it was very clear that this case had to be collectivized and then shared with the ARGIA members even more. There is not much fear in the collectivization of things and in feeling the support of others. The case has taken on a new dimension and at this point I am very pleased and proud of the enormous solidarity received in the environment.


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