How did Radical Independence start?

To begin with, the Scottish Parliament was not designed to be governed by a nationalist majority, but to be governed by a coalition. In 2011, when nationalists got the majority, we realized that we were going to have a referendum. We decided to bring together a dozen people who had been in revolutionary socialist organizations and launch a campaign whose axis would not be the SNP, nationalism, Scottish identity ... On the contrary, we wanted to put the class at the center, from an anti-imperialist perspective.

How did you start the campaign?

The traditional British institutions of the Left believe that all workers must remain united and they cannot escape anything. On the contrary, the groups on the Scottish radical left, the Scottish Socialists, are in favour of independence. Our intention was to win the debate and create a new discourse on independence. We wanted to make it clear that independence is not just the flag of Scotland, that our process is part of a broader international movement, and that the breakdown of the British State is a progressive action.

You campaigned door-to-door, outside the official Yes campaign.

In the United Kingdom, this type of campaign is very common. The official Yes campaign was from the SNP. At first, his main idea was to vote for independence so that everything stays the same. However, as they moved forward, they slipped left as a result of our work. The SNP's are very skilled at door-to-door campaigns. They have records about population: who you are, what you vote for, if you're enrolled to vote... It is a military operation in which the vote is taken to the electoral college.

We, on the other hand, write our own script. When we were asked about the currency, we said: we can hold the pound, but we can also have our own currency. We moved away from the official discourse and, in my opinion, convinced more people. In fact, the inhabitants of the industrial belt have traditionally been supporters of the Labour party, more left-wing than the SNP. The campaign gave us the opportunity to talk to people, even to people who had never voted. We really wanted people to get involved in the democratic process.

The door-to-door process is very hard, tired to the head and body. We are therefore trying to turn this action into political action, as if it were a demonstration, a carnival of resistance against neoliberalism and austerity.

What have you learned through the process?

We had two years to convince more than half of the population. So I felt a lot of pressure and a lot of haste, and in some things we failed. After the campaign, we learned some lessons about internal democracy and responsibilities. We also learned that it is necessary to have a strong feminist trend. Looking outside, we've seen that the SNP is a very powerful organization. Before the referendum there were already 25,000 members, and now, on the other hand, 110,000 were joining. It would be good if RI became a political party to curb that bias towards the SNP. But RI is made up of people from different parties, and that's why we've launched a new aspect, the RISE.

In the book written by Jenni Morrison and the two say that women would earn more than anyone with independence, but most likely the majority would vote against.

The Yes campaign did not include the gender axis, and I believe that is why we lost the referendum, among other things. Women were offered nothing, and in the campaign interventions, if any woman asked why she had to vote for independence, they responded: “We’re going to give a free child service.” As if it were the only problem of women, that of all women, and only that of women.

How did they write that book?

Look, with regard to the referendum, it was a huge mobilization of women, the Women for Independence (WFI) campaign, but they didn't talk about feminism. It was made up of women engaged in politics, former members of the Scottish Parliament, etc. There has never been a mobilization of these women, and I admire very much. Among other actions, successful campaigns have been carried out against the construction of a prison for women, but they should be deeper. I was waiting for the possible links between independence and feminism to be named, and Jenni felt the same. We both have a very similar political vision, we have worked in radical socialist organizations, and we consider ourselves feminist Marxists. We were quite clear about the conclusions of the book, but we wanted to delve into the process.

What potential links exist between independence and feminism?

Britain is a reactionary, archaic and patriarchal state, all its structures are focused on imperialism and neoliberalism. This British ideology specifically rejects women through institutional sexism: investing money in nuclear weapons and not in education or health, reducing aid to care centres for raped women... At the same time, they steal some contributions from feminism by saying that they have many women entrepreneurs, that a woman was the prime minister ... They do it just to clean their faces, because it's not about building a path for women within those patriarchal institutions. Everything must be broken, the British and the British state and the institutions, we need fertile ground for the liberation of women. It won't be perfect, but independence allows us to put feminist struggle in a much more important place.

Of course, you have also joined the class.

At Britain is for the rich Congress, Scotland can be ours, we said that independence is a matter of class and that the rich would vote no. There is a tendency to distinguish class and gender: “It’s a matter of class, so gender doesn’t matter.” On the contrary, Jenni and I wanted to create a different discourse: independence is a matter of class, but gender is at the center of class. In addition, in the case of the neoliberal agreement we refer to a very specific type of capitalism, based on the exploitation of women, more violent than in any previous system.

The feminist movement in Scotland doesn't introduce the class perspective, it's very institutional, it plays the elite, so you have women's organizations doing incredible work, but they don't mobilize in the street. We have suffered very serious economic aggressions and, above all, they have affected the lives of women. According to a statistic that we have included in the book, three-quarters of the austerity cuts have affected women for the worse. All that ideology of saving money is at the expense of women. For example, we have the right to housing benefit, and in that sense, the government incorporated a new measure that people call "bedroom tax". The point is that you get reduced rent subsidy if you have an empty room in your house. This affected women and a campaign against the measure was launched. However, no one talked about feminism and the campaign focused exclusively on the class. It's not bad in itself, but there's a lack of awareness: this aggression was directly against women, and women's organizations should also call for accountability, not just the traditional left.

You have devoted a whole section to security.

The question of security is closely related to the British military obsession. The Scots live 40 minutes from the nuclear weapons of the British State; in Glasgow you can see the weapons in less than half an hour after taking the train, because they do not put them in a tank. That of the Trident military base has been a very important factor throughout the campaign, also for the SNP: we have made it clear that if we achieve independence we will not keep nuclear weapons.

In the book we wanted to show that the military base of Tridente is the supreme symbol of the sexism of the British states. It is 40 minutes from Glasgow, where nuclear weapons are kept and the situation is unknown. Recently, a law has been introduced to renew the base and arms: billions of pounds are going to be spent, while economic cuts are being accepted that harm women. There's institutionalized sexism. While the United Kingdom feeds the discourse on external threats, an economic war against women is taking place at home.

For ladies to be sure, we have not put forward measures on children or the representation of women, but we want to outlaw precarious work, establish a minimum wage so that women can support themselves ... That is what protects women, the power to group against patriarchy, and not nuclear bombs, that does not protect anyone!

The representation of women in the Scottish Parliament grew with devotion. What is the situation today?

With the opening of the Scottish Parliament, women created a strong coalition with the aim of achieving a gender equality parliament. It was a resounding success, as 35% of parliamentarians were women. Since then, however, it has gone to pique. Of course! In our opinion, that is the key: things need to be changed at the root, we need to build on the collective feminist struggle of women, not just parliamentarians.

That is why we have raised the possibility of a double chamber. As in Westminster, after independence we also want two parliaments: one normal and one female. The Women's Parliament would consist of women elected by the communities, and it should pass through it all the legislation that the Scottish Parliament wishes to decide. I would have the right to veto things that affect women: health, education, finance... In this way, women would be politically educated and would become the usual male attitude in decision-making spaces, as we would have women in the center, making decisions about the country.

My mother didn't like this idea at all, it seemed absurd. And I answered. "How can it be more absurd than the House of Lords in Westminster? Men govern altogether and are not elected by people, but are there by privilege." Then he understood. This is one of the keys to awareness, that certain absurdities are invisible.

Looking forward, a political party, the RISE, has just been born. Why?

Our aim is for the Socialists to return to Parliament again. It is very important for the cause of independence. The Yes campaign has been very varied: official campaign, RI, trade unions... All these voices have enabled us to reach 45%, but we believe that this plurality must also be reflected in Parliament, so that people can be clear that we can be independent and not necessarily from the hand of the SNP.

What place will feminism occupy in the RISE?

When Jenni and I published the book, we did a lot of lectures, and mostly young women came. In my opinion, the fourth wave of feminism is about to come, and I've realized that more and more young women are identifying themselves as feminists. So far, in the streets and in the institutions of Scotland there has been no room for women who have feminism as a priority, and we are creating that house, to start being feminists, for independence, socialists ... We want women to lead the organization.

We know that it is going to be very difficult, because in the last elections we had 0.4%, a minimum representation. However, improving that, at any level, will be a great victory, almost better than independence [laughter]. Furthermore, in Scotland there is a special voting system, which is two votes, and thanks to that second vote small parties have a better choice.

How will you incorporate feminism and other learning into RISE?

When Jenni and I published the book, we did a lot of lectures, and mostly young women came. The fourth wave of feminism is about to come, globally, and I've realized that more and more young women are identifying themselves as feminists. That doesn't mean you've read Judith Butler, but you feel, instinctively, part of something. So far, in the streets and in the institutions of Scotland there has been no room for women who regard feminism as a priority, and we are creating that house, so that they are feminists, so that they are independentists, socialists ...

The RISE is plural, there are people from the RI, from the Socialist Party, community activists, people from the anti-austerity movement, from the LGTBI rights movements... We start in August and on 5 December we will hold our first democratic congress to decide the structure, etc. On the women’s network, I should like to make a proposal relating to the right of veto. I think we have a political culture in which men work ideologically and women activism. We want to change that at the root. We want women to be at the head of the organisation, and I think it is feasible, that we are winning the debate. In any case, there is tremendous sexism, and I think that sexism is even worse in the extreme left movement.

How do you see what's coming?

I'm not used to winning: I'm a socialist, a feminist, and I live in Scotland, what else can I say? Usually, I'm pretty pessimistic. However, something spectacular has happened in Scotland, antiquated politics has been broken up in a thousand pieces, and thanks to the referendum there has been a great process of political self-education: people have read more than ever, questioned politicians and the media ...

I do not disregard the challenge, but we have been campaigning for two years, with the intention of breaking the British State, and I do not know if there is anything more ambitious than that... If we do not include parliamentarians on this occasion, we will include them in the next one. Somehow, I feel like a Pandora's box has opened up: there are new ideas, people doing things -- I'm hopeful.