It is known that the War of 1936 plagued most of Navarre with blood. General Mola considered it necessary to create a "climate of terror" and, through a secret order, ordered everyone who might be related to the Popular Front to be merged. Among those who died in this orgy of death were the grandfather and uncle of the former journalist of the Basque Country Irratia Bingen Amadoz, both neighbours of Murillet, who stood out in the struggle for communal lands. The punishment was not maintained, and in the following years it continued, as in the daily commutes the relatives had to cross with the murderers who shot in the brain, multiplying the humiliation.

Now, after his pre-retirement, the Navarro journalist is collecting testimonies about murderers with the aim of publishing them in a book when he can, convinced that the lack of justice of the Civil War can be mitigated by the recognition of the truth.

On the occasion of the municipal change in Pamplona, the building of the “Fallen” is back on the table. How is it possible to maintain the graves of the fascists Mola and Sanjurjo in the centre of Pamplona?

First of all, the name of the square will have to be changed. Count of Rodezno signed thousands of death sentences, he was a terrible killer. Then, of course, the remains of Mola and Sanjurjo should be moved to the places their families prefer. This place should be emptied, cleaned. I don't know what you can do with construction. Some say you have to throw it or turn it into a museum of memory... With Ezkaba's fort, we also have the same problem. We have to publicly discuss what to do with these two spaces.

It was the objective of the repression of their fascist families. It's been a long time since then, have the wounds been cured?

The pressure of that burden has felt upon us all our lives. In August 1936, at night, his grandfather and his uncle were tied together with five other villagers, who were thrown at the edge of the road to Marcilla. They were socialists and committed to improving society. My relatives wanted to recover for the people the toilets stolen by the rich, and they distinguished themselves in this struggle. As in other houses, it has also suffered a great deal in ours. My father was cut off from the root when he was only 13 years old, left with no future. They stole everything they could, and as we were losers, we had to migrate. Some went to America, others to Guipúzcoa and Vizcaya. If this carnage had not taken place, things would have been very different at present.

Has the family dealt with what happened normally?

Both the father and the mother always told us at home, we were very aware of it. On the street we saw the murderers of our relatives. Other families chose to silence these facts, but not in our house. The assassins were not only the ones who shot. Spies were also murderers, who wrote lists of suspects ... Nobody expected what was going to come in 1936 from their neighbours and, sometimes, from their relatives, to suffer such attacks. It was collective madness.

Who sowed the sperm from this madness?

Those who had power in the villages, some rich. But when it came to committing the murders, the poorest were responsible. The powerful attacked the plaintiffs and employed their own servants, the most miserable in the country, unconscious poor in class.

Why is he collecting information about “thugs”?

There are many gaps in the Civil War story, and that's an example of it. The murderers are hardly talked about, it is a kind of taboo. When I gather the testimonies of the victims, two things are repeated: they do not want to give the names of the murderers because there is still fear and, furthermore, they do not want to harm the descendants of the murderers, because there are also very good people among them. On the contrary, the heirs of the Requetés and Falangists insist that their grandfather or whatever was a very good person. Well, some would be good, but not all.

We have to be clear that blame is not inherited, that blame is personal and not from anyone. The victims are not seeking revenge, let alone the offspring of the murderers.

What are the most known “thugs” in Navarre?

The most famous is Txato de Berbinzana, whose name is mentioned in most villages. The Forum of Caparroso or the Galo Egues of Pamplona or Benito Santesteban was also known. They highlighted a few, but there were many “thugs” that were the killers of a few people, in their town or in the town next door... That’s why I’m surprised when I’m told “my grandfather was a Phalangist or a requeté and a very good person.” It could be, but the “thugs” were among them if they were somewhere.

And what did the church have to do in the bloody summer of 1936 that gave way to the “thugs”?

The church played a terrible role. It is painful to see to what extent the priests were collaborators. Some priests were also victims, as in Pitillas, Cáseda or Ituren, but most were direct collaborators. Some were encouraged to kill people in sermons, others were directly among “thugs,” others threw, others handed out weapons in confessional...

After the war, how did the relatives of the dead manage to live with the murderers?

Hardly. Many could not suffer this humiliation and left the people, because they could not see the murderer of their father or brother walking unpunished, in front of them. The families of the victims carried this impunity very badly. Faced with this impunity, the people have resorted to mental justice, that is, they have been led to believe that the murderers ended very badly, that they led very badly in the last years of their lives, that they went crazy, that they committed suicide ... And it is true that some died like this, but others died peacefully, lying in bed, without weighing any.

When do you expect to complete the review you are conducting?

Since the things I have had to listen to are such difficult things, I have had to take this work very slowly, because I have to internalize the facts that tell me. And that's very slow, because there's a lot of suffering, and that suffering spreads. There are 3,500 different dramas. I often return to my desolate home.