You are from Aoiz, as Javier Esparza from UPN.

Yes, and like the mayor of Bildu Unai Lako and the former pelotari Patxi Eugi. I am of nature and of a hasty heart. At 4 years old we went to live in Pamplona, to the Txantrea, but my crew is from Aoiz and I have always spent my leisure time in the village.

You're the father of a 3-year-old boy and now you're waiting for a girl. Is conciliation difficult for journalists?

Yes. My wife is also a journalist, and I have bad times in the newspaper. Ending before 10 p.m. is often difficult. In my case, moreover, it is impossible to work from home. The wording is intense: we have to agree on the approaches, there are things last minute… After all, it is teamwork.

Do you have a journalism vocation?

I think it was rather a coincidence. It is true that I have always been interested in information, but as a young person I wanted to be a football player. When I finished COU, when I was going to enroll in college, I decided to select audiovisual journalism. I didn't like the written press very much, because I thought it was a great job. I found the way to the radio and I left there. I entered the sports section of the NET 21 chain when I was still in college and followed the Osasuna football matches in El Sadar. I have very good memories. I didn't charge anything and I would spend a lot of hours, but I really liked football, I would watch free matches, and in addition, we would go all the outings. I've been to all the big football fields in Spain. That at the age of 20 is a very nice experience. Then I spent a year in Lanzarote, in a local newspaper. I went with my friends and as an experience it was very good. It's almost a game for us. Today we talk a lot about corruption, but what we knew there I haven't seen anywhere else. Linked to the construction, the exchange of interests between politicians and the media… we thought “How is this possible?” Our director, for example, sold interviews to politicians, charged in exchange for an interview.

You went back to Pamplona and started on the newborn Canal 6 television channel.

Yes. They needed a Basque, and so I walked in. By chance. Then I started working at Euskadi Radio on weekend news. However, I did not see myself well. I felt very limited and the result was not very good. In 2005, I started doing some collaborations in the Journal of News. A friend, María Solana, took care of the section in Euskera and I was offered it. Then I had the opportunity to get into politics and, although at first I was a little afraid, I took it with my heart. So I started to feel proud of my work.

You also collaborate in Euskalerria Irratia.

In a critical spirit and in dignity, Euskalerria Irratia seems to me to be an example. It's hard to make journalism better and more dignified. Seeing how work is being done above all the obstacles, I cannot refuse to take part in a session when I am asked to do so. They're doing it magnificently and with a good face. Once a year, a dinner is made with the collaborators to thank for the work they do for the kiss, and when you see how many people we meet and the quality there, you are surprised. And that's not because Euskalerria Irratia is sorry, but because he does his job very well. People are satisfied and feel part of the project. Euskalerria Irratia has established a social network in Navarre over the last twenty seven years.

Political change has finally come to Navarre. What valuation do you make?

I confess that I was rather surprised by the result. I thought there were conditions for change, but it would be very difficult to do so without the help of the SNP. I find it strange that a party like Podemos was so strong that it did not take away anything from the nationalists. That was essential to achieve twenty-six seats between Geroa Bai, EH Bildu, Podemos and I-E. The combination was very difficult: I had to endure I-E, Geroa Bai and EH Bildu had to climb a bit and We could have to enter hard. In addition, the political and institutional framework should be shared between the parties so that everyone has a leading role in the negotiation of agreements. A lot of elements were needed and have therefore all been confirmed at the same time.

And Citizens has also had their role…

Yes, it has won over 9,000 votes to throw directly into the trash can.

Why has it been possible to change this time?

Because people are faster than we think. Politicians, and on many occasions also the media, treat people in a very simple way and we have now seen the rapid response that society has given. Citizens are fed up with politics rather than politics. The word “caste” I do not like too much, because it is very general and in all respects there are political representatives who do a good job, but it reflects a perception: that politicians have moved away from society. We in the newspaper call “regime” what we have had so far. We compare the official Navarra with the real Navarra. This official Navarra closes terribly, until it is out of reality, and people realize it. Hence, those 20,000 votes lost by UPN and the 45,000 votes earned by Podemos, voted by Patxi López. What people have asked for is a response to the crisis and a return of politics to society. In this context of crisis, UPN has made poor management and, furthermore, since its pride, has never made self-criticism. At the same time, we have seen how the discourse of fear has lost strength. The message “Navarra will disappear” no longer moves people, let alone within four years, if the government and the municipalities do a good job and understand the priorities well. There is only one option for change and you have to do it right.

Information has been key in this process. Has the News Weight been especially high?

I do not want to be arrogant and I say this from the humility, but it can be said that now Navarre cannot be understood without a News Journal and that change cannot be understood without the role played by this newspaper. To be well informed in Navarre you have to consume many media and News is essential to understand the background of the official discourse. I think that has been our job, especially in the last four years. Many of the things that we have denounced during the legislature have become apparent. One of our main complaints was that the health of Navarre was poor. The Government of Navarre has denied this, and at the cost of it there have been strong clashes between two agents. We have been brought to court by the news published many times, for example. But it is true, and the results of the elections show us, that people agree with us. Together with us, other social, media and political players have worked hard on this task of showing the real Navarra.

Is the Diario de Navarra losing strength?

Here in Navarre there has been a hard media monopoly for a hundred years, but that is over. Politicians, businessmen… have honoured him and asked him for permission systematically. The main loser in these elections was the information monopoly, which was followed by EH Bildu. I do not know to what extent the regime’s disaster and the dissolution of the monopoly are the consequence or cause of one another. They go both together.

Do demography and new technologies also run counter to this monopoly?

Yes, it is. People have more sources of information at their disposal and are free of charge. On our website, for example, we are very similar to the Diario de Navarra. This shows that people are consuming both.

You have carried out an in-depth investigative journalism on various subjects, such as the CAN diets.

The issue of diets has been one of our greatest media successes. Compared to other media, we're a bigger company, and that's where we have an advantage. We have more staff than many others and that allows us to work on other issues in time in addition to daily work. Human resources are very important in the media. That is something that many entrepreneurs forget. And it also takes experience to have a critical spirit and to know how to read behind press releases, if you don't stay in the hands of communication agencies and cabinets. I am not the journalist ten years ago and, in the same way, a scholar cannot do my job, not because I am particularly good, but because it is logical.

Have you been Barcina's punishment?

I don't think so. I'm just a piece of a work team, but maybe it's been the News face for him. Many have been the drivers of change: the great work done by some parliamentarians, social agents such as Kontuz, all complaints in the field of health care…

What will happen to Barcina now?

I don't know, and the truth is, I don't care too much. The party has taken it from the top. He is still President of UPN, but this is not going to be long. It is very significant to see how Barcina has left the government, the party and, probably, how he is going to leave Navarre: through the small door. He will go to Madrid and no one will miss him.

Journalists do...

And I personally, maybe also, because medically it's been a pleasure: to get out of a mess and get into the next one. He gave me glorious afternoons. Barcina is a burden for UPN today. It represents elitism, the false smile and that old policy of the official car. He may have had bad luck and had to eat all the mistakes made by Sanz and his predecessors: It was an account by Navarre Arena Sanz, designed by Sanz and Enrique Goñi, that of Volkswagen’s VAT already long ago… They have all arrived in heritage, but it has managed it very badly.

Haven't he been the leader he believed?

In the last four years in Navarre there has been a lack of real and absolute leadership. Leadership is needed in a society, but Barcina has shown more authority than leadership. It's been using very simple messages, and that's only true when you have money.

Can Uxue Barkos be the leader of the Return to the Basque Country?

I think people have looked for that quality in it. Now we will have to see how it responds. It is not going to be easy to bring together four parties around a government. In Nafarroa Bai he achieved the integration of the different parties, and now we will have to see if he also achieves it in the government. It needs generosity and integration of those who are not its voters. So far we have lived in two Navarre, in the Navarre of exclusion, and the Basques have been particularly marginalised. Not falling back on the policy of blocs is Navarre’s great challenge, but there will be many political interests to derail it. In this regard, I have seen Uxue Barkos and Joseba Asiron very focused. Asiron, for example, has announced that he will take part in the Sanfermines procession, in which Ibon has participated. Some people certainly did not like that, but we must not forget that the Mayor of Pamplona is the representative of all and these are the messages sent to society. Another gesture from Barkos is to open the door to the PSN. The PSN is not going to come in, but there is the message that has been sent to people. The most important thing is the small issues that affect people.

Will the Basque eventually breathe?

Yeah, and because we've lived so badly, we're happy to breathe. We have always had a stone on top, and it seems to us that only removing the stone from the top will be enough for us. However, I believe that we must be rigorous and ambitious in demanding what is incumbent upon us, but slowly. Here, as in climbing, we must take small but well-tied steps, so that there are no setbacks.

Will the Navarre right have to reinvent itself?

We will have to force him to accept the plurality of Navarre. If you look at the numbers, you see that Navarre hasn't changed that much. People have only given a chance to change.