Did you learn Basque at home?

Yes. My mother is from Antzuola and I lived there until I was 4 years old. Then I came to Pamplona and went to the ikastola San Fermín. It's from Melida and it's from Euskaldun berri. He was an official and spent years studying in the Basque Country from seven to nine in the morning.

He studied teaching. By vocation?

I liked it, and also stereotypes have a lot of strength. Children's education is often seen as something that belongs to women, and I was very much in that role: playing with sister cousins, I was always a teacher. I chose early childhood education. It's very nice.

He is now working on teaching, but also on issues relating to equality.

Yes. For a few years we have been working with a gender perspective in the organization of workshops with municipalities and educational centers. You don't do everything you need, but you do. We specially try to enhance the section of our resume. Many times we have a lot of studies and titles, but vital experiences don't work. Consequently, it is often the case, for example, that we do not know how to manage the conflicts that arise over life. We are working hard on this, despite the huge cuts in money we have suffered in recent times.

The data is very worrying. Research indicates that the control relationships among young people are very frequent. Are we going backwards?

We live in the dream of equality. Many times talking to boys and girls they tell you that we live on equality, but you're just repeating something that has been heard many times. The reality is very different and worrying. It is terrible, for example, the difference between the wages of men and women: In the State as a whole, the percentage is 23% and in Navarre it exceeds 29%. And in Navarra we are also 10% in management positions of companies, while in the administration we are almost 50%. This means that this is an area that needs to be tackled in depth. Navarre is not doing as well as we are told.

Is it about getting high-ranking women to act like men?

I do not think so. It is clear that if more and more women come to these positions we will change the model. With one or two, nothing can be done because we live in a system of androcentrism, in a patriarchal system, and the changes are not just quantities and quotas, even if necessary. In all areas, it is observed that there are still very few women in senior positions, with 60% in university. In recent years there have been more and more educated women. Before we were told that once women got that training, we would have access to business and administration, but we are now seeing that that is not true. We have gone to the public sphere, but many men have not, to the same extent, gone to the private sphere. Even women work more at home than men, and that costs everyone. The fault lies with the system, however, some live comfortably like this. We are moving very slowly and it will cost us a great deal to reach, for example, the level of equal rights that both parents have in Denmark or Finland. There you see political will.

Should quotas be guaranteed legally?

The Equality Act of 2007 establishes the need for positive action to correct specific situations and problems. It affects, for example, the preparation of electoral lists; not so much in the administration, because there are lists of merits, and not in private companies. What is being promoted here is that each company should draw up its own equality plan, but the aid granted two or three years ago ended in Navarre and that, as an excuse, is now all paralysed. No one will force a company to draw up its equality plan when there is no money. Volkswagen, with about 4,500 employees, does not have an equality plan, as reported by the Basque Department of Security.

What would change if there were more women at the top?

Schedules, for example. Meals or afternoon meetings would not be done as often. Women live crazy with these hours to be able to take care of children, the elderly, the sick and the home.

In addition to the schedule, what other contributions can women make?

Another way of living. Don't attach so much importance to production and more to reproduction. Similarly, wars would not be daily news. A woman, a mother, will not create a war to send her children. In many cases, it has been seen how networks of women have been created between countries at war. There would be less corruption, because the main idea of men's success for themselves is the accumulation of money. Do we need that wolf of capitalism to live? Things have to change. The situation of children who in our country only have adequate meals at school or families living on retirement pensions is a reflection of this system.

Rather than in politics, he worked in the UGT trade union. How did you get there?

At UGT, I started giving Euskera classes to the workers in various factories. Then I was told to take over the union in Sakana. What I wanted was for UGT to give a push to the Basque in the Sakana, because in that there was a great vacuum. In addition, we did a great deal of work to achieve union unity in various union demands, such as in the case of accidents at work. I was at ease there. At first it cost me a lot because it was a very masculine area and I was also young, I had just entered. It cost me a lot, but I got respect and I was very comfortable. That's right, I spent the whole day by car, a few days about 500 kilometers.

Sakana currently has one of the highest unemployment rates in the Basque Country. Why is it particularly punished?

Because a partisan policy has always been introduced. It doesn't move back, and there are many families living there. Strategically, it's a good place if you want to do something, but nothing has ever been done there. There has been no political will.

Councillor of Sakana to the City of Pamplona from 2003 to 2007.

Lizarbe proposed to go to the list. At first I had doubts about entering politics, but at the end of the day everything is political, I left the union and I got into town hall, as an independent. You can't take Barcina and Iribas out of his head. With CDN they had a majority and the result of most votes was 15-12. So much work, knowing the outcome beforehand, was disappointing. I wanted women to have a voice in the City Hall and the Basque language as an expert language. These were really interesting years.

Now more comfortably leaving the front line of politics?

Working in the field of early childhood education and equality, but as for a long time, in different social movements: At the Junta Republicana de Izquierdo de Navarra, at the Assembly for Social Change, I am President of the coordinator of forty women’s and feminist associations COMFIN and we are working non-stop. On the other hand, I am a member of the NGO CC and in summer I will go to Mali to work with children and young people. I'm doing politics, but in the back line.

A critical socialist. Are you a reference voice?

It was me.

A free verse in the PSN?

It's possible. What I want is to bring social movements together and turn them around. Make a profound change, from here.

Are the elections going to bring about that change?

You can see it. I'm optimistic. UPN will come down and UPN-PSN-PP and other lower forces that can join them won't get power. Something new and good will come. The thing is that there are many demands, but very atomized: health, education… The challenge is to unite all these demands. We have a lot of people in the Assembly for Social Change. We have brought our demands to Parliament from the bottom up, and all parties except UPN-PSN-PP have accepted them. The people can do a lot of things and take them to the institutions.

But are you still in the PSN?

I have a one-year parenthesis. If you don't pay the fee for a year, you stay out. I'm in it. I agree with a sector of the PSN, but it is clear that things are decided in Madrid.

Have you been very disappointed with the Socialist Party?

But something similar happens in other ways, right? Things are not decided in Navarre, but in Bilbao, for example, and I demand an entire Navarre: Basque Herria our people and Navarre our state. A people needs a state and Navarre is a state. I demand that. There are the Navarros of Gipuzkoa, the Navarros of Bizkaia… But we are all Navarros.

So do you join Nabarralde's ideas?

Yes. Euskal Herria is culture and language, but politically Navarre is the state. What we have to do for this is a profound change: another constituent process for all states to have the right to decide and to self-determination. States are changing, society is changing, but I do not know what is happening in this Kingdom of Spain: instead of providing a solution to the model that is dying, we must continue to do so. The Constitution of 78 must be changed because there are many demands, but the PSOE does not have that in its head. It is contradictory. The PSOE has always claimed the right to decide in its own body, for example, and why not for a people? Why do we have to fear democracy?

How are the former socialists in the Bank?

In 2007, when we were denied the possibility of reaching an agreement with Nafarroa Bai and Ezker Batua, there were many of them. And a year ago, when the motion of censure at UPN finally stayed in running water, many others did the same. The foundations of the party are crumbling and that does no good to the party. A leader must have the courage to carry out what is decided and if it is not accepted, as in Madrid, to appoint a manager, and it is over. They lack a leader here.

If Laura Pérez asks you to be on the Podemos list, do you accept it?

I've known her for a long time. It is very good, honest, coherent, from here... The Navarros are from here and what Laura has done has been to unite that Navarra plural.Tambialso I know Joan Bosch. He lives here, but it's not from here. Maybe it's a palette view, but in view of past experiences, as decisions are always made outside here, people have chosen one from here. She has very positive things to be president: young woman, with a new speech outside the slogans… The bases we have in the Assembly for Social Change are those of Laura. Laura has taken on board the ideas we have worked on for three years. We all want change, that is, to lay minimum standards on the table and then to maintain that plural government. It will be difficult.

Can you agree with EH Bildu?

Why not? It's a party. I don't understand why so many ghosts and so many fears. Well, now the ghost is We Can. Before “the Basques come,” now “the Podemos come.” At the outset, national demands must be ignored in order to reach agreement on a minimum basis. Serious situations must be resolved. It's the most urgent thing.

Would you come back to the front line of politics?

I have not raised it. I continue to make basic policy and if what we do down is picked up and the doors are open, we shall see. A radical change must be made to send the opposition to UPN, which has been in power for 19 years.

The Navarra of June, how?

Full of illusion, of other speeches and colors: green of ecologists, purple of feminists… We have to fill the Parliament with color. It's going to be difficult, because they're going to leave Navarra indebted. With pharaonic projects such as the circuit of Los Arcos or the pavilion of La Arena, weakened by education and health, which Navarra does not need. Without money, a great deal cannot be done, which leads in the medium term to losing the hope of the voters. The Left immediately slap our governments, because we are very critical. We need peace and tranquillity for this plural government to do its job at such a difficult economic juncture. All together, the upstairs and the citizenship.