Since the elite sport has been “democratized”, tourists climb the Akonkagua in chancletas, anyone goes to Everest and it seems that anyone can run the marathon...

José Manuel González Aramendi: First, it should be clarified that 40% of the data do not perform sufficient physical exercise. And then there is another group, as you say, that leads to extreme sports practice, but in general we do not know what motivations are. For health it is enough with an hour a day, but from there the relationship between the time spent on physical exercise and health is not so direct.

Dorleta Ugalde: According to the data we have, in the Spanish state 60% is sedentary, while in the CAV the percentage is slightly lower, 57%. In the CAV there are 24% of people who practice only one sport and we have 18% of what they do about everything, so we are talking about a very specific and not so numerous group of people. The democratized feeling is rather because of marketing, because the sports material was of the first specific people and today, for example, you can see 2-year-old boys and girls dressed in lycra on the beach.

Luis Mari Zulaika: I agree and believe that the challenge for the administration, the media and those of us who are trying to push it forward now must be to encourage and increase participation in the light of the figures. We have the greatest potential risk, knowing what the inactive lifestyle entails. Most athletes do not show up at the marathon, most go to the gym, do the treadmill, do a little bit of swimming… However, as has been said, physical activity is in principle very good for health, but the relationship between physical activity and health is like an inverse U: at first, the more you do, the better health, but from a certain level, if you begin to commit barbarities, it becomes even worse.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: We should differentiate what sport is, what physical exercise and what physical activity. Most people know what the benefits (physical and general) of living an active life are. We have three fundamental pillars to maintain our body and quality of life: balanced eating, toxic prevention and physical exercise. That's why it's important to encourage people to do minimal physical activity. The World Health Organization (WHO) considers that light physical activity should be performed 150 minutes a week, and in many countries it has already begun to ask for 75 minutes (10 minutes a day), seeing that people are very sedentary. My impression is that here you do about 20 minutes a day, shopping, walking, etc. But the risk is that passive leisure is getting bigger and more and more available, we have it very integrated into our way of life.

Substances in changing rooms

Well, leaving aside sedentary people, sports enthusiasts use substances to increase performance. Has amateur sport been prostituted?

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: I think that is the case in some cases. Special drinks for hydrating, energy drinks, protein section, vitamins, etc. From a scientific point of view, it is clear that in most cases we do not need substances, special hydrations, or additives. If a person eats well, they don't need supplements, vitamins, amino acids, or others. If you practice hard sport, you have to get the glucides back right, and to do so you have to eat well, it is important to hydrate well, but if you have clear guidelines to follow (if you do good training and natural recovery) you do not need more. Components not included in the doping list have not been shown to make a significant difference in performance, but many are poorly labeled and contaminated with stimulants and anabolic agents. According to the study carried out ten years ago by the International Olympic Committee, in some Western European countries 25% of the add-ons were contaminated with stimulants or anabolic agents. And that's dangerous to your health. Young people have either died or ended up in a very poor state for consuming these kinds of products.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: In times of crisis, the image is given great importance and it has been shown that more is being spent on cosmetics and sport. In sports, in kids' changing rooms, I've seen big jackpots, not for performance sport, but for physical activity related to aesthetics. Weights do them -- and they use them, they're amino acids, they're creatine -- to define the body and other things. My perception is that this has increased, on a popular level and very unconscious. These boats have also spread widely among firefighters, among local police officers… and in terms of performance, the age of the doping people has decreased.

LM. Zulaika: Yes, I also have the perception that among young boys and away from federated sport it is increasingly widespread to change the physical aspect, in a way to swell muscles, the marketing and use of strange pots, labels and mixtures. And looking at performance, I'm surprised that popular tests pass the tests and the positive ones appear. Somewhere we have lost the north if people are doping on tests on which participation and fun should be based.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Doping tests were previously in the hands of the State, but now the Basque Government already has the Doping Act for the CAV; we are doing tests on popular tests both inside and outside the federation and have been found positive.

How can I understand that?

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: They do so in order to win and to stand before others, I believe that only in this way can we understand.

LM. Zulaika: To the extent that there are psychopathologies of motivations, there are extreme situations (such as bigorexia) and it is necessary that some people achieve them, despite the damage that this entails for health.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes, and it's not to improve your own brand, but to get better than others. Public recognition is above your health.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: Usually among guys…

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Among women we hardly have, not even in the official tests. Some case echoed and came out in the media asking for apologies, but in general, it was barely noticeable. And we don't have any research on the influence of some substances on girls.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: About ten years ago we carried out a survey among federates from 15 to 22 years of nine sports modalities, and one question said: Could you take doping substances to be a champion, even if it threatens your life? In certain sports that I'm not going to mention, 20 percent said yes. Many young people don’t have the awareness of death, now they take it and then they don’t know it… and an American doctor at the gates of the Los Angeles Olympics launched a similar question: Would you take a pill to be an Olympic champion, even if you know you'll die next year? And about half of the people said yes. The awareness of the moment is widespread, a kind of carpe diem, lives the present, enjoys the present and becomes famous now, and then the future. There is a lack of education with young people, in this sense.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: We asked athletes about doping and whether they knew the benefits, but whether the drawbacks didn't, or didn't want to know. The answer was blank.

LM. Zulaika: The legislation also allows for curious things: In the well-known Quebrantabones test, a person who cannot definitely participate has been victorious because he is positive in another modality.

Not only substances, but also overexertion can be harmful and we have seen injuries, heart attacks… To what extent did we put our health at risk in the name of sport?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Aramendi explained it very graphically: carpe diem…

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: Despite seeing the danger, give up and go ahead. Sport comes from war and ancestral sports, and some sports are like ancient battles. Lacrossea is a hockey sport and the Canadian Indians used this game to prepare for war, to hit and kill their rival if possible. Inside we have the genes of war, and we often see sport as a war, as a struggle, as if our lives were at stake. Fans and hooligans are an example of this. From an anthropological point of view, this challenge, this passion for struggle sometimes lies behind sport.

LM. Zulaika: Precisely, sport has also been used for the adverse effect: carpe diem among adolescents and young people, the excessive enjoyment of the present, as therapy to drugs and leaders, through activities such as bunching and adrenaline.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: The World Health Organization says that suddenly children suffer from testosterone intoxication and feel able to do anything and face anything. In that sense, what you're saying is interesting: it's better to bring those young people into the sport, and for example, to do a rugby session, to go out and look for confrontation.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes, especially because of the importance of sport and war between children. Among girls, goodness is not given importance in sport, good doing in studies or being handsome has more social value. On the other hand, among the boys, making good notes, for example, does not have so much social value, but being a good athlete supposes a social recognition in this team, and each one seeks his/her identity in his/her own team. Sport is not good or bad, but the use of sport.

Arrival at the elite in the spotlight

How does the professional sport model influence? Is there an imitation problem?

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: In fact, the transition to professional sport is often the motivation of many and it is often the parents themselves who encourage them to take substances. One time, a man came to my office with my son and I told my father “quiet, I won’t give anything to the boy,” and the man “no?... Then we go.” It is a reflection of reality, because for many people the best thing is to be a professional athlete, to be a professional football player or a professional cyclist, famous, socially recognized, with money... And also many parents drive this in their children, because they see the family situation as an opportunity to improve. Fortunately, this is not always the case.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Going from an amateur to a professional, a friend saw he was forced to take illegal substances and thought: “I have been dreaming and sacrificing from the ages of 8 to 18 to come to this and now I come and how am I going to say no? I have to take for the march here and if I do not go to the street, because we must continue”, naturally, in the aspiration of this professional sport. I usually tell the children in my environment that they only see the positive aspects of professional sport, but that behind, besides doping, there are many hard workouts, sacrifices and disadvantages. Professional sport takes a toll and when it is removed we see the problems they have... I at least don’t want my son or daughter to be a professional in that sense.

LM. Zulaika: Let us not forget all those who are on the road. How many people have discarded everything else to be a high-level athlete, and it hasn't come. The influence of professional sport is total; an anecdote on social prestige: I heard about Ronaldo with my friends in a snack, although I never saw my children soccer at home. So as not to be left behind in the circle of friendships, especially at the moment, kids have the north to be like those stars that appear on television. The influence it has on children is enormous.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes, and sports institutions (administrations and federations) cannot direct the whole sports model towards those four that will reach professionals. That's the biggest mistake of the sports system, that the entire pyramid is organized just for those four, leaving aside everyone else. Many federations do not want to worry about the sport that drives another more popular model, even if there is a lot of potential and even if they have lost a large number of licences, but it seems to them to be a second or third category. That is incomprehensible to us.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: French pedagogue Pierre de Frédy said that sport was a very important element in the formation of the new human being of the twentieth century. Nowadays, sport can still be used to educate children, but I do not see much desire to do so in the administration, for example; if I were responsible I would try to establish this humanistic path, to work through sport friendship, effort, sportsmanship… A good athlete, but understand “well” in the parameters of these characteristics, as, necessarily, he will be a good person in society. If you do sport with respect, if you do not cheat, if you know how to play with your peers… the same will happen in everyday life that vice-versa. In sport, we reflect how we are.

The tree and the pyramid face in school

Does school sport not work with children? Is there a strong collision between the objectives of school sport and those of clubs and federations?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Although I work in the Basque Government, my personal opinion is that the public administration is always full of its mouth for the values of sport, but when it comes to putting the resources, they continue with the pyramid mentioned above in the face of the professional model. School sport has great potential, but it's not focusing properly.

LM. Zulaika: I believe that this is the essence and the substance of everything. For what purpose do we organise school sport? Before we followed the pyramid model: organization for the creation of high level athletes in the future, and for that we chose the best ones, focused on them and the others lost on the way. If, in the twenty-first century, as we have said, the objective is to promote an active lifestyle among all citizens, that model does not serve us. Almost twenty years ago, a general law was proposed for the CAPV – then each historical territory made its own interpretation – closer to the model that would be for all citizens, to promote an active and healthy lifestyle. For this purpose, the tree model was chosen: that the boy and the girl try from the beginning the basic motor skills to develop them in their totality and in their totality, and that tomorrow the branches will start to emerge, some will be destined to the upper category and to the domain, but all the others will be prepared and have internalized the culture to maintain an active life in free time. What happened? That performance collectives have enormous strength, that they are exceptional factual power, and that those who should make decisions succumb to that pressure. In the case of Gipuzkoa, for example, for many years we have had the model of the tree very well developed, but we go back by the force that the pyramid model has.

And who are the ones who press?

LM. Zulaika: Above all, there are sports associations, federations and powerful media that support it.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes, and the more you complain about them in the media, the more you feel pressured in the public administration, the more you go back. From the point of view of resources, efforts are made, but if people are not professionalized, because there are coaches and referees, then we see the 16-year-old referees eating. If you are also rebuked by a person who works as a volunteer, it will not come the next day. There are obvious gaps and it is said that the important thing is physical exercise, that sport comes later, but the sports model goes in the opposite direction and with a strong inertia; they do not want to leave that wheel.

LM. Zulaika: A politician long ago said: “What you propose may be reasonable, but not popular, and a party can never propose measures that are not popular.”

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: We organized a sports test with boys and girls and the administration gave more importance to the participation of someone of a high standard than to the participation of most people possible. What matters, whether the Spanish champion is involved or organised for a hundred boys and girls?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: There are media that focus on that champion, not on popular testing…

LM. Zulaika: We know what the television shows with the most audience and the newspapers that sell the most, and there is a large group that is interested in this model. If politicians interpret that the model we defend is going to harm what they sell in the media, it is difficult to cope with it. But working psychomotor skills and basic motor skills in childhood is detrimental to anyone who wants to progress in a particular sport at a senior level? Numerous works (e.g. with athletes of the Barcelona Olympic Games) have shown that many of the Olympic medalists have been medallists of other sports in their youth.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: We live with this enthusiastically in the administration. When managing the permits for the Spanish championships, we have to hear that “our children are behind”. And it's not true, if we look at the results, but in the name of it, we constantly justify the pyramid sport model.

LM. Zulaika: Some argued that Real came down to Segundo for the school sport we have here!

In particular, what are the characteristics of school sport?

LM. Zulaika: In short, the diversity of sports, doing everything in tandas and avoiding early specialization in a single modality; discredit the result – at the lower levels there is no classification – not making teams based on the level – instead of putting the best and the most mediocre in one group, in the other forming natural and mixed teams with peers and classmates –; prioritize the educational objectives; manage the educational centers and not the sports clubs or associations that have the result.

And to what extent is it met?

LM. Zulaika: These criteria were previously followed up to the cadet category, up to the age of 14, but in recent years it has been changed and federations have been allowed to go further and further down. Today the federated teams can start very low, working in parallel with competitive objectives and although by law it has been tried to limit it, forcing them to participate in the school sport in order to participate in the federacy, in daily life we see that the law is not always fulfilled and that the effect that one makes on the other is negative.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Mixed groups have also multiplied, but they have turned 13-14 and say that “now we start serious, girls on the one hand and boys on the other.” In hand ball, for example, girls have not had official championships for them and have to start playing shovel or other sport.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: The physiological process known as the effect of relative age should also be taken into account: An 11-year-old boy, born in January or December, is not the same physiologically, there is at least a 10% difference and most high-level athletes are born in the first semester, as the trainer usually welcomes the older in childhood, and the younger and younger are excluded from the bench; they play less.

LM. Zulaika: Early development is valued at these ages when making the elections, taking into account what are the best at the moment, rather than looking long-term. That is why one of the foundations of school sport is not to give importance to the outcome and its current level, and to be speedily formed in the long term.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: Yes, but some coaches are looking for the success of the moment and for that they choose the most suitable boys and girls.

The chairman of the referee committee of the Biscay Football Federation, José Antonio Mijas, said in an interview that the problem in school sport is the parents: “What the Representative wants is for the child to do sport and for the coach and parents, in addition to doing sport, to win.”

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: The role of parents is fundamental, because if parents give importance to winning, children will think the same, and if they choose other values, they will pass on to their children to enjoy what they do instead of aggression, and then choose what they want to do. You will enjoy the sport with another peace of mind, like pleasure.

LM. Zulaika: Yes, parents are referents and models and have a huge impact transmitting their values and responsible messages. It is important that parents do not lose the north. It is understandable that at these ages children dream of becoming stars, but parents have to help them have their feet on the ground.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: If you look at the attitude of parents, there are sports that are more dangerous than others. A friend told me recently that the parents of a prestigious college in San Sebastian fought and were ashamed, even crying, at a football match for their children.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: The vast majority of the bodies dealing with conflicts between fathers and mothers who arrive at the Basque Sports Justice Commission belong to the world of football, around 90%.

Because football is the most widespread sport?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: No, because of the culture and expectations that are generated around football. As we said before, it is no longer a game, it is a kind of war. I have been organizing Euskadi children’s championships in 20 modalities for school sport for five years, and the contact sport is the one that generates the most problems, first in football and then in handball, but in rugby I do not have more contacts than in rugby… The expectations generated by each sport, in the social it has, greatly condition the expectations of the parents towards the children. Being very good in handball probably won't be as important around you, if it's good in basketball it will matter and if it's football, what to say. This creates a chain.

And you mean Children!

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes, yes, at that level some are willing to fake tokens or tell a guy to stay at home to play on his name at the end. When we buy a washing machine, we look at the guarantee, the water and the energy it uses, a lot of things, but then sometimes we leave our sons and daughters too easy with coaches we don’t know… and I’m the first, because I’ve thought, “jo, the values that this is going to happen to children…”. At the same time, I want to stress that there is everything and that I have found many good coaches throughout my career.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: I know a referee who forged his age rowing to participate in a veteran's championship. If the one who is going to judge, the referee, cheats, think! After all, we criticise what model the medals have followed in China or in the former Soviet Union to achieve them, and otherwise, but almost with the same philosophy, we have organised our sports system through strong screens. When he was here, the representative of China's Sports Affairs explained how before the Beijing Olympics they chose children who had gone from school to school, then tied them to hard workouts and rejected those who suffered injuries, and followed the pyramid logic. Here is a similar logic, making selections and discards with children to achieve concrete goals.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: The Chinese, precisely, organised the Beijing Olympics in order to get as many medals as possible, and for that they made a list of the sports they saw easier and more controllable to win. For example, having to invest a lot of money in football and be lucky and other factors, they didn't get strong in it, but they did in women's sports, because getting the girls' medals was cheaper and easier. 80% or more of the medals obtained by China have been obtained by women. Look at the criteria that the sports system organized.

Philosophy of popular tests

Returning to adults, the number of races and other tests and participation is very high. Are these tests organized with the right philosophy? What advantages and gaps do you see if the most popular test is not the most popular in Behobia-San Sebastián?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: I think there is a general lack of coordination. A lot of tests are organized and anybody organizes it in their own way.

LM. Zulaika: At Donostia-San Sebastián, races of equal or similar distance have been held for three consecutive Sundays.

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: Yes, there are a lot of popular cros and although the organization is a great merit, they have also become business. Multiply the value of enrollment and the number of participants and get accounts. To this must be added the money left by those who stay and others who stay, which brings economic benefits to the city and, therefore, whoever wants to organize the test has all the blessings. Why do people take part in these tests? I don't see them as natural evidence of the participation of ordinary people. Although the Behobia-San Sebastian is only 21 kilometers – nothing more in quotation marks – for many it is a very hard test, and in the last few kilometers there is nothing more to do with how people suffer. We have had some serious cases and I think we will have more.

LM. Zulaika: The motivations are many and I agree with you, but we have to try to use all of this data to increase people's participation. How many people are going to force the body above their capabilities? Well, we have to educate all those participants, but we have a treasure that they would want elsewhere, and we have to take advantage of it to expand the culture of participation and reduce the number of sedentary people.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: For me, that is also his greatest strength: If you sign up for Behobia in Easter and until November that leads you to run twice a week, look how many months you've been. If after you have not participated in an injury, for six months you have been doing sport is a joy. What happens is that I don't know if the people who participate participate with that goal ...

But can the test encourage a more popular sport by the organization it has? I mean, what's most important is that instead of going out and making a brand, for example?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yes. A family triathlon is practiced in Donostia: it is practiced together and in the swimming test you have to wait for all the participants to finish to start the bike, and the same thing before running. It takes two years and time is not important. Canicross is also made... Not in federations, but in some clubs, associations and municipalities an awareness is being opened to organize tests outside the usual schemes.

LM. Zulaika: It also happens when there is evidence for something: the careers for the Basque Country, etc. are carried out in a festive environment. There are tests that cover many modalities, such as those organized by the XIBA association, which include dance and others similar to assess other skills. And there are also activities, some mountain groups, for example, prepare excursions ...

JM. Dr. G. Aramendi: In Zumaia, for example, the familiar Bost Kirol test is performed. I participated in the first edition with some friends and the idea was very nice: the healthy competition between crews, swimming, in the race of sacks, on the bike, running… thought to have a good time. After two or three years, the crews were no longer natural crews, the teams making fichajes have gone back to the usual crews. Grief, with her son, and because it was a good opportunity to do so, was just as clumsy… but soon they changed the initial sense, until they turned it into a high-level popular test.

Why does it lose its initial character in a moment?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Because competitiveness weighs heavily. In Behobia, for example, the one who marks “bad” told me, “I go out very quiet being bad, so many people come out at my speed, that I am protected”. You go to any other popular test and run the risk of going only in the middle of the race, or with the car pick up behind, or they're taking the tape off you as you go... Somehow it's obvious that you're "bad." But in Behobia, with so many people, you're always surrounded by runners, everyone has the opportunity to do their career and feel protected at all times, without drawing attention.

LM. Zulaika: The races that manage to keep the bottom platoon are more likely to engage everyone, but other races only attract the good ones and people don’t aim to keep it out of evidence.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: Yeah, it's important to take care of that back platoon. We have a lot of San Silvestre, for example, and a friend has told me that “I’m going to Beasain, because that’s serious”, while to other San Sylvestres people will greet the Old Year in a festive atmosphere.

LM. Zulaika: It also influences the form and awards that are distributed in the test.

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: And distance is fundamental. In the same test, many already allow a different distance, so that everyone can choose the alternative that suits them best. Before that was harder, but now with chips, it's easy to do things like that.

Women's sport

In this model, from school sport to adult testing, where is the woman left?

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: The sport trajectory is different in men and women. Among women who practice sport, for example, the number drops dramatically between the ages of 26-50 and then resumes. This is usually enough to take care of children and parents and has to do with leisure time: According to Eustat, men have two more hours off a day than women. The motivations for doing sport are also different: men argue for physical exercise and having fun, and women for exercising and improving their health and fitness. Having a good time is not one of your main arguments, with your connotations for and against. Men look for more hedonistic pleasures and objectives in sport, and for women it becomes an additional obligation. Women often choose the modalities that give them the most flexibility: for example, if in the gym there are fixed day sessions, it will fail several times, but if you have the sports club bonus to be able to go anytime, it will go a lot more. In the last ten years, the licenses of sports federations have not increased among women, they remain 20% of the total licences, but women have joined sport in other ways: in gyms, in sports sports, on their own, in groups… The model of the federation does not adapt well and women have travelled the way around the sport of participation. Finally, asked why they leave, men reasoning fatigue from work or from studies, and among women above all laziness or insensitivity. It is curious, because women are much more tight with themselves, because they remember that men have two more free hours a day and yet they are more tired than women…

In any case, what I would stress is that if it is left in the hands of inertia, it does not increase the participation of women in sport, in federations, or in popular tests. The Behobia-San Sebastian started receiving financial aid from Emakunde about five years ago, because women went out very few and in ten years the figure had not increased. With this aid, in Gipuzkoa, groups of women were created that had never before run through counties, to run the Behobia in the long run, with a coach. Zarautz's is the most successful and registered about 80-100 women of all ages, 100 women who have never run. Zarautz's is a trainer with a lot of social skill and that's very important to keep the team up. Now they have women of all levels running and they have far exceeded Behobia’s goal, participate in a lot of popular careers, they are in groups, of all ages… In the mixed cross of Zarautz the distances were also lowered and the necks were removed, t-shirts were taken for girls – before they had to take the men’s –… There are concrete initiatives behind, if not by inertia, because they feel they are accepted from the environment. In the rowing, there were many views against organizing the women’s race in La Concha, but among other things, Joserra Garai, director of Sports of the Basque Government at that time, made a big fight and gave a direct subsidy for it. In the first few years, if not subsidized, the Concha de las chicas would not be organized, because many felt that the participation of the girls was going to be a loss of prestige. In addition to financial aid, ETB retransmitted the female regatta with the participation of the boys. It was a milestone and in this case the model served as a counterposition: the fact that you could reach that point greatly influenced and a lot was added in the lower categories the hobby for the rowing among the girls.

LM. Zulaika: The sport experience they have experienced in childhood is the one they will continue to experience. If you take them as a child to the competition, many girls will be out of place, they won't know where to stand, and age also has a lot to do with it: after adolescence, many become motivated by health. Parents are also fundamental in this case, as they usually have different expectations towards the daughter and the son, from a certain age they tell one that they have to dedicate the hours to the studies and the other that they see fit to continue with the sport. Likewise, studies indicate that the highest correlation factor that exists for the daughters to continue doing sport is for the mother to also practice physical activity. And again, the influence of the media: When Joane Somarriba was made with the victory of the Tour in the Elysées, they were giving a Second B football game on our television…

"Wow, sir!" Ugalde: During his stage as lehendakari, Juan José Ibarretxe was excited when he went to the Giro and saw the cyclist girls sitting on the ground without changing clothes. The truth is that the participation of women was a great advocate of sport, it always treated us very lightly. We have been struck by the fact that on more than one occasion we have the selection of boys and girls and that the boys stay with the five-star hotel and that of the girls in the same championship; some of us will give them all the equipment and the others just pants and niqui. They live continuously with that unfair comparison. And in these times of crisis, with the lack of budget, women are the ones who suffer the most. The participants of the Spanish women's rugby team are witnesses: The teams are working on the Brazilian Olympics, but most of the money goes to boys, although the results obtained by women are better. The first reason federations always give is that men create more money medically, and in many cases it has not, the boys have not generated more income and yet the same has happened to them. The à la carte criteria cannot be changed to ensure that the benefits are always the same. They should be treated with the same mime and justice.