Its roots are in Irun, but in the Rioja Alavesa, in Labastida, Remelluri is of the family.

My parents came here in 1968. Like many other Basques, they wanted a house for the summer, with their children. The beauty of the place was exalted, at the same time, protected, as a place where nature overflows. In addition, it showed ancient remains. And yet that place was abandoned! The vineyards were special. It was the time when people were going to the cities, that exodus, to Vitoria. And there she was abandoned. So the parents first bought the house of this Remelluri, with a piece of land, and since then they committed to protecting the place against the civilization and pressure of the modern world. They went ahead, in a way, to the time, because today people are furious at leaving the city.

Were your parents fond of vines at the time they came here?

Absolutely nothing! But that is what happens in many parts of Europe and also in the United States. Many of the high-level projects related to the wine sector have been launched by young intellectuals from cities. They are people who are foreign to peasant culture. Our parents were also educated, read, passionate people about history. And even though they weren't farmers or winemakers, they knew the best wines in France. They did the project, and with the help of their own ingenuity they did this Remelluri.

And you are here now. At one time he was the director of the Department of Culture of the Basque Government.

Yeah, we did something. Mari Karmen Garmendia was a counselor at the time. It happened to me to work with Txato Agirre, I think we did a nice job, but in my life it's been a very small job. I was dedicated to politics, to management, I wasn't an artist or a creator, my job was to help them. Most of the line was committed – perhaps in projects that we did not like – and dedicating the rest of the small amount to distribute among creators was a tremendous frustration. We did what we could. Bitter feeling! See that so many creators worked in this town, and that politicians were so lost, on many occasions making the wrong decisions… Amazing!

You worked in public management, work in private enterprise…

Both have bleeding. Each of them is yours. In our situation, private companies are struggling to function well, they find the way. Many companies and public projects in the world of culture, on the contrary, have failed and are failing over and over again. The reason is the tension and disagreement between politicians, or I do not know, I!

Interests of parties?

But what is the “interest of the party”? What is that? Are four or five crazy people interested in helping their friends? Don't you realize that you're providing a public service, that you have to provide it? The interest of the party is not worth it! The fact that we have to walk still seems incredible, but that's how we found ourselves.

With this thought, it is understood that you have done no more than four years in politics.

Four years in politics, because we were kicked out. We did not say: “We’ve done a lot already, we’re going!” No, no. At that time, we created a lot of tension at a higher level. Txato Agirre did not see with good eyes some of the things he said and did at that time. We didn't know what was going on so we couldn't follow each other, but I'm sure someone pointed our finger at us. I never knew for sure what it was like… Anyway, it was a great honor to give me the opportunity to take up that post, and a great honor to meet those people I met, authentic, authentic creators. A treasure! In this sense, I felt privileged. Being with the artists, knowing their work… In Euskal Herria I moved a lot, and all that was very enriching to me, and yet, the frustration: “We’ve done, we’ve walked, but what have we achieved? What have we helped these people?” What a pity!

That upheaval in politics, or in administration, if you prefer, is there, but you, in fact, have already studied Biology. Has the work in Remelluri helped you in anything?

It has certainly been helpful. I'm here, in part, because I studied biology. Land, water, climatology -- they're not strange subjects. I did a PhD in England, but the last nine years I was at Remelluri, a biologist technician, along with my brother Telmo. We were studying land, agriculture, the processes of vineyards. Thanks to my biology studies, I could already do it, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do it. The truth is, I learned a lot at that time.

In Remelluri you use natural resources, which gives you great importance.

In the 1970s, a number of producers decided to abandon chemicals. They wanted more natural, greener roads. Forty years have passed since then, and today, with the resources and methodologies at our disposal, we have no excuse not to follow that path. Fortunately, our parents did not want to introduce dirt into the vineyards for not having been experts in vinification, but they joined the ancient tradition in an intuitive way, and in what we have to do, those of the second generation, we have to work consciously, professionally and scientifically. We do an ecological job, absolutely. We comply with the controls we have, certificates and so on. It is surprising, however, how little we are working on the organic production of wine in the Rioja Alavesa. We're just three or four, and I'm surprised.

That makes Remellur even more special…

It brings added value to our project. Our client pays for the work we do, knows that this way of working is more expensive, but is willing to pay. Here, most farmers sell grapes to large wineries, do not control the process of wine making, their work has no added value and I think they are sold, lost, depend on the price imposed on them by the market, and when the price is ever lower, it is impossible to make a clean agriculture, the ecological route is impossible. So what do they do? By the way of chemistry, they tend to be intensive, they produce more and more cheaper…

Is it possible to make a good wine that way?

It is not possible. People haven't figured out yet, but they'll notice. But years will pass and people will understand, it will be reported that the use of chemicals is not good, not only in terms of taste, but also in terms of health. Everyone can eat and drink whatever they want, everyone will see it, but as we see, people are not informed, and that's why we believe our work is also that, so that people know that not only what we eat and drink, but also the trees and insects around us are part of our lives, and that when we use chemicals we are harming the environment. We also have to think about that, and we try to get the customer to think about it as well, know it.

What would your grandfather Teodoro Hernandorena say if he saw that Euskera did not appear in your museum in Remelluri?

If he lived, we would already have the labels in Euskera. It's one of those pending subjects. My grandfather would be right. On the other hand, we do not have many Euskaldunes visitors here, and those who come are not under enough pressure. We have hand sheets also in Euskera. The website is also available in Basque, Spanish and English. Your grandfather Teodoro would like to. But I tell you, if I lived my grandfather, we would also have explanations in the museum in Euskera. He was very Euskaltzale, very stubborn and very brave. I came here every year, when I could. In summer, in autumn, I spent a few days here, I climbed a couple of times to Toloño, I was going to do walks through the vineyards… However, he did not look very much at making wine, it seemed the most normal. He lived here looking at nature.

What does Remelluri have to draw your attention to?

It is “eye-catching,” yes, unfortunately.

Unfortunately?

Yes, because people see it as a special place. And, after all, there is nature, it is a clean, quiet place, no vehicle works… “Unfortunately” I said, because in this environment we would have to have many more places of this kind. However, the trend here is another: we are looking for highly pretentious, more industrial works. We have the intention and the desire to continue in this our, this is our style, our work, so we want to keep it.

In Elciego, the winery designed by Frank Gehry is totally different.

What am I going to say to you? We would never do it. We wouldn't have big stores or rich hotels that way. It is not among our priorities. Furthermore, we do not have time to do so. We have a lot of work taking care of our hundred hectares, looking at plants and animals, making and selling wine, receiving visitors…

Since I mention Gehry, the question is: In his time of government he was doing a new job of Gehry: Guggenheim Museum Bilbao.

Yes.

That's what the money took away.

Yes. Before Mari Karmen Garmendia was a counselor, Joseba Arrangi took office, and when we arrived we were already signed all the commitments. The anthropologist Joseba Zulaika did a great job around him. A reference.

In the Basque Government the Chronicle of a seduction of Zulaika – The Guggenheim Museum of Bilbao (Chronicle of a seduction), was not taken with pleasure, works on the Guggenheim of Bilbao.

No…

The harvest soon…

Soon, yes. In the month before the harvest, we started to track the grapes, controlling the sugar, its maturity. As the days approach, we have to make increasingly accurate measurements, not to control the sugar, but to analyze the skin of the grapes. In fact, in our environment, within the Bordeaux system, all the elements that determine the quality of wine are in the skin. It's just content, sugar and water. The real importance is the skin, the one that keeps the skin.

“The Bordeaux system”…

Elaboration, method. Here and in the world, in Italy, California and elsewhere, the only system is Bordeaux, which helps young wine to become a complex wine, to oxygen between the barrels and others. The system is not going to change, because there is no other system, it has to be that way, and it is... For the moment, those of Bordeaux, those of Burgundy and those are playing the Champions League, not us. In the Rioja Alavesa there are no wines with which the Champions League of Europe is being disputed. Maybe if we do as the French – two hundred years, three hundred years waiting – and if we do things right, maybe we can play the Champions League! At the moment, no. We need time.

Two hundred and three hundred years!

It needs as much as the vine, and the wisdom of one needs the knowledge of two or three generations. It's time. Despite the arrival of the smartest technician, despite making the project brighter, money and the best ethnicity… And what? Nothing. It takes time. You are at least forty or fifty years old to make a good wine. Good wine, not from the Champions League.

But here there are old vines, both in Remelluri and in Rioja Alavesa in general.

Yes, but little. In the 1960s and 1970s, great barbarities were committed. It was a modernization and old vineyards, terraces and garnacha were removed, and… It was said that it had to be modernized, act intensively. But you can't make a good wine with that grape. And that's why we've had to start again. That is why the emblematic projects of our time – be it Artadi, be it Benjamin Romea, be it nosotrxs… – have come from the hands of the young people, 40, 50 years old, with a different sensitivity. n They are the ones that provide quality. It is sad that we have lost a lot of time here in vain. But, well, we'll get it back!