Did you manage to put your ideas into practice for ten years at the mayor of El Coronil (Sevilla, Andalusia)?

That is impossible. For ten years I worked for my people and then I said by an absolute majority to return to the Workers Union of the Camp (SOC). In the City Hall I tried to put into practice all the dreams we want to achieve in the fight, but there are many difficulties, especially economic ones. However, we did important things, for example, about participatory democracy for citizenship.

We also made an interesting housing policy. We distributed 500 plots of 100 square meters each, for people to build their house gradually. We sold for EUR 1,200-3,000. In addition, we rent homes, the most expensive monthly income is 37 euros and the cheapest is 15 euros.

We also made every effort to create jobs; we helped small farmers to cultivate social fields. From the City Hall, we funded them part of the planting of crops and left them with a vessel to organize a food handling cooperative.

What was your salary at the City Hall of El Coronil?

During my stay at City Hall I have never had a salary greater than that earned by a casual worker. What's more, there were 65 people on the staff, and I was the one who had the lowest wage. That's part of my culture. When you earn a lot of money and live comfortably, the charge sticks to you and you don't want to go back to the first one. I don't know many people who've come back to the previous post after they've been in politics. I don't want that.

I have three years left to finish the SAT Congress and then I will go to the camp to work and retire with EUR 580, unless these politicians spoil everything. I'd also like to go to college to study history, I've never been to school, and I still have that pending subject.

You've been arrested many times, you've also been in jail. Are you sorry for something or are you proud of everything you've done?

I am proud of that. I have never stolen anything, I have not pasted anyone, I have only defended what I thought was right, and I continue to defend what is right for the people. I have been in jail five times, the first in 1976, during the dictatorship, and the rest under the government of the siguientes.Pero I have done nothing to repent, all of our actions are peaceful.

Juan Manuel Sánchez Gordillo has been your friend and friend in that fight. How would you define it?

Juan Manuel is sincere, he is fully committed to the workers of Andalusia. He is a professor and could live calmly, but he has "burned" his life in a village of 2,800 people. It is fair and has nothing because it renounces material good. He's a valuable person to build the world we want.

What does SAT contribute to Andalusian society?

The SAT does everything possible to ensure that the Andalusians regain their dignity, which is the most sacred for the human being. We want to make it clear that when something is right, we have to fight for it.

What relationship do they have with other unions in the Spanish state?

There is always a relationship with other trade unions, particularly nationalists and regional ones. We have recently held a meeting at state level in which trade unions from Catalonia, Galicia, Madrid, Valencia, Zaragoza have participated. We have talked about the situation of the Spanish State and the need to strengthen the confluence effort in the important struggles.

The media focused on the symbolic actions you carried out in various commercial establishments, but at the same time they wanted to distort the event with words such as “theft” and “assault”.

The actions carried out in Mercadona and Carrefour de Arcos de la Frontera were denounced. The one who is going to steal at night is covered so that no one sees him and steals for himself. We haven't stolen it for us. We made a public protest: we wanted to state that in the Europe of the 21st century – in the Europe of freedoms and human rights – in Andalusia 400,000 families have all their members unemployed and in 350,000 families nobody receives social aid. It's real data. Week after week, in Caritas, Red Cross, municipal services, churches… the queues are longer. And no more people go because they are ashamed! We wanted to denounce all this with the activities of Carrefour and Mercadona. But the bourgeoisie has wanted us to ridicule and criminalize. They tell us that we are a radical left and we tell them that we have a radical need.

During these months, the SAT has supported several demonstrations, including student mobilizations and the general strike on 14 November. What demands are joining you?

Since we occupied the Somonte estate in March (Córdoba, Andalusia) we have been campaigning. We have carried out marches, actions in the shops, demonstrations and strikes in the region. We claim five things:

First of all, basic income. Secondly, the Spanish Government should draw up economic planning to enable the unemployed to work between three and six months, returning the money to the public and giving dynamism to the social sectors. The third requirement that we put forward is that the land be distributed. The fourth is evictions: we cannot allow people to take their home away, families with children are staying on the street; unless mortgages rise from 25 to 50 years, but people cannot be left homeless. In Andalusia there are 400,000 unsold homes and in Spain there are about 4 million.

The fifth measure would be to remove the requirement of 35 days of agricultural work to receive support from the PER (Agricultural Employment Plan in Spanish), the PER is a subsidy of EUR 7 per day. Those who have worked in construction, the immigrants and the ones we are already, we are now working in agriculture, and since there is no job for everyone, many do not work 35 days and have very difficult to collect the PER.

How do you have to be the most repressive union in Europe?

With great concern, because behind the union there are retaliated people. 550 members are currently being processed. Since March, 132 cases have been recorded and 77 of them have been arrested. No one has taken a penny to tax havens, nor has anyone received anything that does not belong to him, nor has he glued or insulted anyone…

We have only carried out hunger strikes, demonstrations, encierros, concentrations, roadblocks and occupations. But I am deeply concerned, because we accumulate EUR 400,000 in individual fines and some colleagues already have firm sentences in other cases. And this is in the 21st century, where we talk so much about freedom and democracy. I have been legally inactive for two years. When I am declared silent, I do not say anything, I do not say it because I have the right not to declare. They're fatigued to me. I do not do so on a whim or pride, but there can be no such repression. They have blacklists and they accuse us of the facts knowing that we have not been; there is nothing more unfair than that. There are people who have been sentenced to fines or to be arrested at home, although they have not been in the actions.

You have been against private property. What is the alternative you propose?

The economy must serve people and serve to build a happier society. We should all agree. First you have to find the formula, then we'll call it.

Earth, for example, is a gift of nature. Why can't it be at the service of people and the social economy? Nobody built it, the land was there. The air is public, everyone can breathe, the earth must be the same. Private property is, I think, an insult to man. Why accumulate so much wealth? Generate private profits without any control? I do not understand. On the other hand, we've been told that happiness is related to the possession of things, to consumer goods. Why is happiness not fostered based on culture, leisure and friendship? We have to look for a different world. That what we do is respect for nature, because the right to life is not only ours, but also the right of our descendants. Future generations have the right to find a healthy land, not a genetically modified land for producing more, as it is poisoning.

What would be the most appropriate structure to change the current political and economic situation?

The PP and the Socialist Party defend the same in economic terms. They are two big parties that need different speeches to get 20 million votes and be able to manage a system of capitalism called the “free market.” On the skin they are different – such as gestures around historical memory or gays and lesbians – but they deceive people.
I remember the anarchists going to the cortijos with a little bicycle and striving to teach people how to read and write. Today people are taught and they know everything, but in general the population is completely manipulated and illiterate. Although he knows a lot, he doesn't know anything. Young people do not know how to cope with reality. I'm glad to see moves like the M15, wanting to discover new things, are showing that young people are moving for more than bottling.

You said that Andalusia is “Cinderella española”.

Andalusia has always been used to obtain cheap labour elsewhere. It represents 17% of Spanish territory, has 8.2 million inhabitants, 8 million hectares of land, of which 30% are said to be among the richest lands in the world. We have a good climate, we can cultivate everything. But we still have 2 million people abroad: one million in Catalonia and the rest in the rest of the Spanish state and in the rest of Europe. In addition, at the time of harvest, 50,000 people go to France, to Navarre to collect more asparagus…

We cannot continue with 34% unemployment, which in some countries exceeds 50%, nor are we eight points below the Spanish State average for health care, we cannot be the fourth of the European regions with the most unemployment, poverty and school failure. That is why I say that Andalusia is the Spanish Cinderella. We have more reason to protest here than elsewhere. We must not look at Africa, although we are close, we must look at Europe, because we are in Europe.

As the raw materials are so important to the Spanish economy, do you think that sufficient financial aid is being given to the workers who work the land?

What we need is regulation to regulate agricultural products and to set a fixed price, as do other products. Prices for agricultural products, from origin to consumption, rise by 700% and in some cases to 1,500%. Intermediaries, although they do absolutely nothing, get all the money. The product should not be more expensive than 20% when it is bought by the consumer, so farmers and consumers would win both and not speculators.

On the other hand, we have to organize crops, we cannot go on adventures, if it is enough to sow 5,000 hectares, not to sow 10,000. We are in speculative trade: we send the chickpeas to Mexico and we bring others from Mexico; we have to regulate a market that prioritizes the nearby.

What concrete plans do you have for the future to improve the situation of workers in Andalusia? Are you optimistic?

Let Andalusia not be land of landlords and dukes. We want the land to be handed over to the people, to the cooperatives. To date, only 50% of the Andalusian lands are in the hands of 2%. We want an agricultural reform, which is modern, respectful of nature and at the service of the people. We want all the crops that are produced to be grown in Andalusia. For example, 95% of cotton is manufactured here, but there is no textile company. We should contribute to the creation of manufacturing industries. This would create many jobs.

On the other hand, with regard to rural tourism, we want a tourism that is compatible with nature and a plan for restocking forests that allows private forests to be restored and made public.

Have all these years of struggle been worth it?

I do not know if I have contributed anything, but I have at least tried. In the end, the world is transformed when there are people who have the courage to challenge injustices. The important thing is to be brave in the search for that transformation, and those of us who are in front of this union have that line. It is true, however, that many times we do not have the opportunity to broaden our discourse, because the media are controlled.

We've been lucky enough to hit the key with the Carrefour and Mercadona account and we've managed to talk about real problems. The action came to newspapers around the world: Iran, China, Japan, Venezuela, Mexico... We've been fighting for 30 years and so far we haven't had that media effect.