Aurore Martin is detained in Spain for holding political meetings, giving press conferences or writing opinion papers on her political situation. “So, you too, Xabi Larralde, can be arrested,” we told our interlocutor: “Yes. What is more, we Members of the Northern Union have been involved in the same causes in which they are accused. He touched him. In what calculation? Who knows!”

In what context is the arrest of Aurore Martin?

There are two parameters. One for the entire Basque Country: Since the French Ministry of the Interior there has been a complete alignment with the positions of the Spaniards, their speeches are similar. The Minister of the Interior, Manuel Valls, has also wanted to show a "tough" attitude towards the Declaration of Aiete. Two: the political environment that we live here. The consensus to call for institutional recognition of Iparralde is clear. The process and debate are on the verge of decentralization undertaken by the State. Valls' words and initiatives have been precisely to put an end to the political environment in Iparralde.

Is it possible to think whether Manuel Valls or President Hollande himself has gone a long way?

Apart from the assumption that Aurore Martin is in a Spanish prison, the option they have made has obviously not been in the interests of the political consequences of the French Government. On the part of society, the reaction has been strong, they have been unanimously denounced by the police. The position they have taken is completely defensive. The Government says that there have been no political decisions, so it has not taken the consequences. I could say: “We have given order and Martin is in jail for legal imperative.” Instead, they said: “We casually discovered it along the way...”

How is the political climate after the events of recent months?

What has happened has been a turning point, it is a great precedent in our historical political trajectory. For years we have tried to write the following equation: here the parameters of the political conflict are not between the nationalist movement and the State, but between the Basque Country and the State. This equation has now appeared before all eyes, vividly. Among other things, particularly in the last year, because the Aiete Declaration has influenced Iparralde and because the political players here believe that we are at a different stage. The previous reasons or excuses do not serve. It is clear that Iparralde has to know the new political time, based on institutional recognition.

Value the Declaration of Aiete for one year.

With regard to Iparralde, the political effect of Aiete has been total, with over 8,000 seats. There is broad consensus here. 80 per cent of the political spectrum agrees that the peace process should proceed and that a new political sequence of institutional recognition should be drawn up. In Hegoalde, the attitude of the Spanish State is brutal, we are facing a resounding no. It's a structural problem. Even though it wants to sell the version of the police victory, the state is a great loser in the face of the political problem. In Basque and Catalan societies, independence projects have never had the strength they have today. At the same time, the economic crisis has caused the Spanish State to be on the verge of collapse. Since Franco's death, he has not been so bad at his juncture, he is in a defensive position, because he sees his duration jeopardized. As a result, the process has been started violently so far.

The process has two sides: the resolution of the conflict and the sovereignty of Euskal Herria.

There are two examples of these two aspects in Europe: Ireland and Scotland. Spain is aware that our strategy requires responding to these two lines, and it also knows that our steps are directed towards the accumulation of forces, taking further steps unilaterally towards sovereignty. The consensus between England and Scotland has left us with one thing: that this type of political conflict can be resolved by political means and democratic criteria. What about Scotland has to bring about a similar situation in the South. In other words, a people exercises its right to self-determination and the world does not fall. The situation is calmly tolerated by England. Why not Spain?

Are you hoping to change your attitude? How do you see the future?

In recent years, some Western nations have become sovereign in Europe. Parameters and attitudes have been modified. Now, the Spanish State has reached the edge of the precipice, where the plane is located. Its future is riddled politically and economically within Europe. The states of the world and the financiers look to Spain...

Can the economic crisis influence the positions of states? The economic situation is serious. Very evident in Spain.

Many may think that the Europe of the 27 States cannot function to cope with the crisis. How is the new state going to adopt in an economic crisis as severe as the one we live in the West? It is precisely in this situation that Scotland and England have also broken the taboo. In view of the situation in Catalonia and the Southern Basque Country, the Spanish autonomous framework is exhausted. Madrid has two options: the recentralization of the State, which is difficult, or, inevitably, the reform of the State through a federal or other model.

It can therefore be due to the crisis.

Yes. But, well! The phenomenon we have in Europe is very significant. The euro has led to an acceleration in the specialisation of the economy, which has enabled Germany to reindustrialise. After 20 years, it became the largest industry in Europe and the most competitive industry in the world. In this process of industrial specialization, the countries of northern Europe have also maintained their industrial capacity. The people of Hegoalde have re-industrialised, including the French State. This imbalance is very large, resulting in a tremendous imbalance in trade balances. The trade balances at Iparralde have surpluses and those at Hegoalde have deficits. To get out of this situation, remaining in the euro, the only political model is federalism. Or, at the very least, it is the establishment of a mutualisation of means to enable States in unfavourable situations to emerge from this serious situation.

How does this affect the peoples who are committed to their sovereignty?

In this context, Flanders, Scotland, Northern Italy, Catalonia and the Basque Country are rich regions. Some say that the option for independence has been revived, because those rich countries do not want to continue in solidarity with the poor peoples. I do not agree. The parameters of the crisis are not those, but there are societies facing factual, banking and financial powers. We must therefore work our nationalism from the left and from the internationalist perspective for the Europe of the Peoples and in solidarity with all the peoples of Europe. I, for example, am in solidarity with the workers of Andalusia, not because part of the Basque Country is part of Spain, but because as Basques I am trapped in this crisis with the Andalusian workers. Also with workers from Portugal, Greece, Italy or Iceland. Because in the face of the crisis I am in the same class of citizens and workers.

So ...

Our nationalism must not appear, as we are strong and rich, but along with poor peoples and societies acting against finance and capital. We have to leave some mattresses behind.

The principle of sovereignty must be learned, cultivated and used.

Yes. Sovereignty has become an effective concept in dealing with the crisis of capitalism. Some may question its potential, but let us look at Iceland. It has about 300,000 inhabitants. One of the few Europeans who has refused to pay all of their debt is the Spanish State. A democratic exercise has forced him. Two referendums have been held asking the public: Do we pay the debt? And they both said no. The State of Iceland has been forced not to pay the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the Bank of England. What is the crisis? That capital has defeated the peoples. We have to translate the correlation of forces. We must establish political powers over economic and financial powers to regulate the right of peoples to self-determination.

You mentioned the specialisation of the industry a moment ago. Delve deeper into this.

The principle of sovereignty should contribute to changing the forms of international distribution and specialization of capitalism and liberalism, in the principle that all peoples have the right to live in dignity, which requires each to be able to maintain its economy from its capabilities and from a diversified sphere. Instead of developing international productive specialization, without leaving space free to markets, we have to work another form of production.

To talk about the institutionalization of Iparralde: many have set as an example the path being taken by the Territorial Commonwealth. What are the keys to the process?

One, place our strategic choice within the scope of consensus and bring our small stone into that realm. We [Batasuna] We defend the status of autonomy for the North, including the right to decide. That is not the Territorial College, but we have to reach a consensus, taking into account the weight we have. We must build majorities, taking the place of each one of them. The second issue is the popular dynamic, which has two axes: to define the point on which we have departed and to see exactly what the perspectives we have from that point are.

What criteria have nationalists in general brought to this consensus?

Four criteria: one, the Special Status is the formula we have to work on. That is, to achieve a special recognition of Euskal Herria in France. Secondly, this structure must include the minimum capacities prioritised by the Council of Elects (economic development, cross-border relations, land management and housing, and Basque language and identity). Three, that status must be changing and so recognized from the very beginning. And four, establish procedures for its implementation with the decision-making capacity of the Basque society. Through the referendum, for example.

Members of PS and UMP, among others, have also been involved in the process. How has it happened? That is their achievement.

Because they understand that a new time has come. They have had the effect of the situation in the south. The politicians here have known their regional institutions and have realised that the world has not fallen because there is autonomy, on the contrary. We have given priority to the Territorial Community on the road to independence, and there is room between the two. They know that this is not our objective, but we have proposed to respect consensus and popular will. In other words, in future, depending on them, any path can be worked out with democratic guarantees.