The PNV candidate for lehendakari, Iñigo Urkullu, has assured that the reform of the Minister of Education, Mariano Rajoy, in the school curriculum will violate the competences of self-government. We asked him what he would be willing to do if he were lehendakari: “If the Spanish Government does not take account of Basque history, we are not only before the Constitutional Court, but are prepared to use the foral pass,” he said.

The transition to democracy took place in the years 1975-79. He has once said that a second transition is needed. How should we understand it?

The PNV says that a second transition is needed, and I often say that we have to make our transition in Basque society. Elections will be held on 21 October without the presence of ETA, as ETA has terminated the violence. ETA, however, is still alive, so this requires a transition to coexistence. Also in the State, after hearing what some Spanish military [on the part of the Catalan Diada] have said, the transition is necessary because the armies want to guarantee the unity of Spain. The formations of both the National Court and the Constitutional Court, as well as the obligations of Congress and the Senate, should also be reviewed, particularly to see whether the role of the Senate is appropriate or not. It appears that the PSOE is prepared to re-read the Constitution, or gives the impression that there is a change in its position. After 35 years, there is hope that a number of articles of the Constitution will be revised.

PSOE Secretary General Pérez Rubalcaba spoke about federalism in Congress. Is it credible?

Is it possible to believe fully in the intentions of the Socialist Party? I don't know. But, well, in the PSOE some are talking about a political conflict. Rubalcaba should define what federalism is. Federalism is by no means an approach that satisfies me. If it is a question of federalism between Catalonia, Galicia, the Basque Country and Spain, it could be the subject of analysis, but if federalism is a federalism comparable to the autonomy of all, I do not take it for granted.

Does the new Statute proposed by Ibarretxe serve today?

Of course. Moreover, since then the general and more specifically economic situation in Europe has changed. The popular movements that the state wants have appeared in Europe, or want to review the framework of the state in which they are: Scotland, Flanders, Catalonia, including our Autonomous Community. Some of the contents of the New Political Statute are valid and also of the Ardanza Plan that did not see the light. It already proposed in 1998 the Associated Free State, which was subsequently ratified by the Ibarretxe Plan and which, in essence, requires the reform of the current Statute.

Is that the new political status proposed by the PNV?

Yes. That is, the Lehendakari Ibarretxe introduced the New Statute, which sought to transform the current autonomy. It was adopted by an absolute majority of the Basque Parliament, in accordance with the procedure laid down in the current Statute. That is our starting point. From the CAV, with this new Political Status we want to walk towards the Foral Community of Navarra, regulating institutional relations. We are proposing the possibility of introducing the right to decide in the legal system, as well as its exercise. Our intention is to look towards Europe instead of looking at the Spanish state, our hope is Europe, because at the moment Europe is the space that is being built. Our objective, from the local economic and political point of view, is to move in the direction of Europe in order to build our own framework.

Does the Catalan model serve to tear the trajectory of Euskal Herria?

No. To begin with, it must be acknowledged that the realities of both are different. The headboards that broadcast the media are often very easy to follow. It is often said that our circumstances are the same, but those in Catalonia, Quebec or Scotland are not the same. Furthermore, I do not believe that they share their intentions with ours. They use one thing as their motto, but the real goal is another.

What objective?

I would say that Scotland wants to remain dependent on the power of the United Kingdom State.

And Catalonia?

Also. And that is that, on the part of the institutions, their geographical physical configuration is totally different from ours. In Catalonia, the four provinces of the State are: Barcelona, Tarragona, Lleida and Girona. This is not Països Catalans. When we Abertzales talk about the State not only about the CAV, but also about Navarre and Iparralde, and we have to be aware that the three areas are in different legal and administrative situations.

The Catalan House has announced that it will consult all the Members of the Generalitat. If you were lehendakari, would you make that claim? Does Ibarretxe want to make a query similar to what he wanted to do?

Yes, of course. The PNV advocates introducing the right to decide in the legal system through constitutional reform so that the Constitution itself can materialise the formula of the right to decide. That is the first approach, and the second is the holding of a referendum. In this task we need an open agreement between the political forces to bring the initiative to the Basque Parliament and, if so, to consult Basque society.

If the State does not approve it, if it is not a referendum, it would be a consultation. Let's suppose that most of society gives the yes to a new political status. So what do you do?

We want to work on the road to Quebec, in the resolution issued by the Supreme Court of Canada. In other words, if a society expresses its intention by a majority, the powers of the State cannot ignore it. We must therefore move, for example, in that direction, if the PSE, not, but the Secretary General of the Spanish Socialist Party has proposed a revision of the Constitution, let us go down that road.

Do you have a deadline for this?

On 25 October last year, I expressed my wish to implement the new Political Status of the PNV: I announced it for 2015. It is therefore not because of what is happening in Catalonia, not because we are in the electoral period.

“Independence does, but also the time has to be taken into account,” he says.

Yes, because independence is a 19th-century concept. The reality of the 19th century and today's is very different. It seems that we will be independent when we say that we want independence when we get out of bed. Is Spain independent?

Can the Basques become as independent as the Spaniards in the European context?

We will achieve independence insofar as we have even fewer dependencies. Our main objective is to have as little dependence as possible. Have the maximum of competences and look to Europe, knowing that the present is the Europe of the States. In fact, States no longer have economic independence, but they maintain that of States with the greatest possible strength. To the extent that Europe is being built, we need to know clearly what we are talking about when we talk about independence. The European Union, which has been built in recent years, is because the states that were outside the Union have joined it. There are no new Member States after division within an existing Member State in the Union. That is why the PNV has asked in the European Parliament whether Europe would accept an internal enlargement – if there is a division between the inside – whether we can be part of it.

Have you received an answer?

No, in art, because we have to explain who we're talking about. Are we talking about Álava, Bizkaia and Gipuzkoa? On the independence of Navarre or Iparralde. It is a step-by-step path that must be followed, that we must work and take good care of.

He is accused of having mentioned two conflicting objectives in art: Let the Basque State have a place in Europe, and at the same time do not want divorce with the Spanish State.

See, Catalonia is claiming the state and at the same time says that it wants the tools of a Estado.En a conference held in October 2008, I said that we want a “more” Basque State, moreover, I am convinced that also from the Statutes of Autonomy we strengthen the tools of the state: EITB, Ertzaintza, Economic Concert... All this was channelled during the Transition, through the Constitution, but it has been crumbling along the way. So what I say about divorce is understood as follows: In 1978 there was a pact between the two parties, which has only been broken by one of the parties. If it was a pact, I do not want to break it, because that pact was recognised by Basque society. I would, however, like to adapt the pact to the present reality and further develop it. This implies the development of coexistence, and for this we need a pact between the two. And not subordinate coexistence, I want coexistence on an equal footing, and if that is not possible, the pact must be reconsidered.

Can that be achieved by looking at Europe and at the same time by negotiating and sharing sovereignty with the Spanish State?

Yes, it is possible. This is the reflection of the confederation represented in the CAV Parliament. In the Basque Parliament, one territory has no more representation than the other, it is a confederal system, it is not federal. That's not in the Parlament or the General Courts, our system is different, and it can be an example of that.

EH Bildu is a new force in these elections. “We didn’t come to integrate into politics, but to change the model,” said Laura Mintegi.

The Abertzale left seems to be sick: not only do they think that everyone else's story begins with them, but they also think that their story begins every day. Renunciation of its history. The Basque Left has been represented in the Basque Parliament, and a legislative pact with the PNV, between 1998 and 2001. Euskal Herritarrok has had delegations and responsibilities. Moreover, they have participated in the budgetary debates. Laura Mintegi will...

He says he doesn’t have…

...does not represent the Basque left. Who do you represent?

Do you see opportunities to govern with EH Bildu?

We will not close the door to anyone. Therefore, neither to the left Abertzale nor to EH Bildu. But, it has to be acknowledged, EH Bildu has a long way to go, questions many things to others. On the one hand, it has to demonstrate whether or not it has a democratic culture. There is nothing else to do with what is happening at the General Meetings in Gipuzkoa. The Assembly decides one thing and the Government of the Foral Council does not comply with it. On the other hand, in the economic sphere, we see the imposition in various approaches of EH Bildu. At the economic level, private initiative aims, in the name of socialism, to impose that they have no place in the public sphere.

Have you mentioned the impositions, if EH Bildu takes the government, you announce the wrong way or the wrong way?

Well, yes. I do not believe that EH Bildu respects plurality, and that is a characteristic that we must work very carefully in Basque society.

However, PSE and pp say they are closer to EH Bildu than to them.

That is the slogan of the Socialist Party and the Pp, which has never given up. They want to put fear in society, they always seek instability. On the contrary, the PSE announced in the last campaign the transversality between the parties for this legislature, saying that the others were immersed in signs of identity. Later, he agreed with pp, which has led him to establish a symbol of constitutionalism over the last three years. The dissemination of this kind of ghosts during the election campaign is part of its strategy, it is a game to use.

Others say that they are going to repeat the model of the past, which is the government agreement with the PSE.

To begin with, the PNV now has all the broken bridges with the socialist party, which has been left out. These predictions are very easy to dismantle. That is to say, Bildu has agreements with the socialist party in the General Meetings of Gipuzkoa, in the area of taxation for example. And that's not denouncing, what's denouncing is to blame the PNV for doing those things. Has there been no EA agreement with the PSE? I guess you'll also have to remember that, right? Did EH not vote alongside the PSE in the Basque Parliament? Has it not been the talks we have all applauded for reaching agreements between the Basque Left and the Socialist Party?

They have questioned the economic management of the current Government by insolvency. Do you fear it when you return to the government?

I'm not afraid ... That's the raw reality, but that's why we don't have to be afraid. This Basque Government began its mandate with a debt of EUR 642 million, and by the end of 2012 it accumulates a debt of EUR 6 billion, which has increased tenfold. It's data, not interpretations. The public deficit it had committed in 2011 was 1.5% and had to be recognised by the Bank of Spain itself, something that this government has not acknowledged: The Basque company has closed this year with a deficit of 2.5%. It is therefore not going to meet the public debt that has been committed, it will be more.

Is there any possibility of understanding with PP?

In the Spanish Courts, pp has an absolute majority against. It is undeniable. Of course, we will also have to work governance with the PP. Also, who do we have to work with in peacemaking and coexistence? Well, with the Abertzale left, and also with the pp. Living together in the Basque Parliament and making politics perfectly normal is a challenge. We must therefore all help each other in this task. This policy must be enriching for the good of the people. The PNV, for its part, is open to all parties to ensure governance in reaching agreements.