During the Lizarra-Garazi period we read “With the party ideologist Joseba Egibar, Juan Mari Ollora appeared...”. He took the Word: “That’s written by the media, I don’t deserve that nomination. In addition, EAJ is not a fan of page tours, nor a fan of strategic thinking. Maybe it’s changed, I haven’t been in the machine room in the last 12 years.”

You spent thirty years in politics. How do you remember the experience?

In politics I was in everything: in management, the Finance Deputy, the Chief Deputy... Senator and Deputy in Madrid, Member of Parliament in Vitoria. In all but I wasn't everything, of course. When the ABB appointed me as deputy general, I said with simplicity, “I don’t just want to photograph, I want to dedicate myself to the treasury, because I know that...”. I also worked at EBB, with Xabier Arzalluz, it was a pleasure, it was enriching. But I knew I had to get out of politics before politics kicked me out.

That's one of your lessons.

Oh, yeah, yeah. My years coincided with a specific way of doing politics, which later changed. These were new moments, many things were done, which then, legally in life, are changing with the power of evolution. My time in politics was enough not to lose my fascination.

No intention of coming back, then?

I have it clear: you are in the disposition of party and politics, but your time has passed. They don't wait for you, they don't even call you. I realize this happens in every aspect. And that's a big mistake. It's not a disappointment. That's the way it is. Parties and institutions lose. For example, I haven’t spoken to the head of ABB, Iñaki Generraba, since then, well, once, to make a personal gesture. Not even with Iñigo Urkullu. That's the way it is. Nothing is happening.

The meeting will take place during the elections.

And I agree and satisfied with the participation of Reunion, of course. In this way, which was artificially extracted, the map will be reconstituted after the elections. In essence, this will lead to a more democratic situation, which we must use as a lesson.We must learn from the experience of how democracy has reacted when the state, in developed countries, has to deal with a socio-political phenomenon that sustains violence. In the future, we must also take advantage of the experience to know the level of resistance that the State will place on the nations of the Spanish structure. Is Spain willing to reflect on the level of resistance of nationalist sociology and accept the difference? The difference is basically our projects and our political objectives. Is the United States ready to embrace a multi-nation state?

In the meantime, Iñigo Urkullu has said that the PNV has made its contribution to the Encuentro.

I don't have any information. Iñigo Urkullu also said that some things can be told and some things can’t. It's gonna be true. It was the kind of attitude I took.

How do you predict elections?

I think Bila's going to cause an electoral explosion, it's going to be a powerful expression. I don’t know how the campaign will affect it, but I think that the programs will not affect it very much, the personal trajectories of the candidates will have a great impact, but above all, the desire for normalization will prevail, there is the desire to enter a new phase, and the one that best gathers it has been gathered. I see the electoral success of Reunidos, but above all it will be a bet loaded with reasons from the patriotic left, an irreversible path to a new scenario that will bring peace, that will bring the end of ETA.

Your party, again?

He will be affected by the explosion. But to begin with, the real political map will be formed, more real, to see the strength of each one. There is also a second positive impact for the PNV, which will complicate the PSE-PP treaty. It will expand the field of alliances, it will also expand for everyone.

There are many nationalist candidates in the elections.

Yes, unfortunately. The political map that will now be revealed will be provisional. The five-year political horizon begins, and we will see how it all ends. I believe that the new youth and political leaders of the multiple expressions of the nationalist option, as well as those of the PNV, face an immense challenge to the nationalist world. They must be able to lay the foundations of the points that unite us, to clarify at what minimum we agree. This is what civil nationalist society demands. That's the challenge.

What does the political situation in Navarre suggest to you?

I don’t know much about the politics of Navarre, but if nationalism needs minimal foundations, in Navarre it is even more so. The challenge is greater in Navarre and the new situation must be addressed as soon as possible. However, if they have to win the challenge of solving the political problem of the Basque Country, they have to convince the population, there is no other way.

What could the PSOE and PP’s competition mean at national level?

According to the results of the PSOE, he has enough work at home to replace Zapatero. They have to decide who is the candidate for the Spanish government and the leader of the party, and there is no party or organization that does so without tension, they will have tensions. The PP will still seek the rapid degradation of the enemy to reach next year’s general elections in the most favorable conditions.

Will the Basque theme influence this?

Of course, it will affect you in one direction or another. If the PSOE addresses the issue properly, it will be fine, otherwise it has a difficult future.

How do you see the direction of the nationalist left?

The conviction of those who lead the nationalist left is absolute in the new trajectory, as is the commitment. Because it is a process created from within; it could not be anything else. And it has arrived, when it seems possible. It is a pity that during the Lizarra-Garazi Agreement, in which I participated myself, or in Loiola, I did not succeed. But in the end, that was their problem.

Are we in a new process of peace and normalization?

With contacts under the table, I have no idea. But with the results that will follow these elections, with the new party that will be called Crear or otherwise, the Patriotic Left will have its own identity, and in doing politics everyone will have to put it in front of the mirror and look at it in a different way. For many the existence of ETA has been an alibi in the adoption of defined positions, but this time is running out.

For many, it means...

Even for AJ.

How do you see the new scene?

With the need to ask fundamental questions, to make important decisions, the time of the pendulum is over. The PNV will have to make important strategic decisions, new positions of collaboration for the work, otherwise it will be overcome by events. Society, especially a nationalist society, is willing to accept fundamental approaches, including that of independence, and also to accept them with serenity. In other words, the next political period will not develop on the basis of more or less than one transfer.

If the PP were to reinstate the Government of Madrid, would it maintain its current position?

Well, I don't know, I don't think so. But this will depend on the capacity of the Basque nationalist left and nationalism to create agreements. And that's what we need to talk about, and there's still a lack of confidence. In essence, we all have our mouths filled with the so-called “social majority”, but the history of nationalism is a history of division, eternal division. Witness to this current map. How many nationalist options are there in the elections? Four or so. Therefore, the first duty of the new generations and leaders of these parties is to establish minimum bases. From there, once the basic unity is achieved, it is possible to think tactically about change. But being as we are...

Is it a special duty, perhaps?

It has many obligations, one of which is to nominate a presidential candidate, an identified leadership, which is better to resolve before the end of the year, and even better for September. It needs a clear leader who identifies with the state of illusion we live in, who has the power to lead people, and the PNV does not have it, with all my respect for Urkullu.

Could it be Juan José Ibarretxe?

Juanjo Ibarretxe, in my opinion of course, would be the most suitable leader of the PNV for the new times. It's just that he wants to come back.

You just mentioned the pendulum feature of the PNV. Could you dig a little deeper?

Oh, yeah, yeah. The two-arithmetic aspect is over, as the rising independence movement – which establishes independence on the table – will require it to define itself, which is why the ideal leader is Ibarretxe. Well, if someone else doesn't come out. It may be, but I don't know him.