Cantiniersa vs Kantinero: the name and being offered the talk last week. How does the idea of making this conference come about? What is the essence?
Xabier Kerexeta: The question arises of how we call the cantinero when he is a man, but when he is a cantinero: Singing or singing? In Iparralde, to mark gender in Basque, cantiniers say. If we were to return as a cantinier in French, it would not be clear. We wanted to do that game of words to explain that reality that's happened this year and understand that this choreographic figure comes from a long time ago.
In my case I have explained the historical figure. Then, what we call cantinera has been consolidated as a folkloric figure, and we talk about its evolution. In the end, history is not just bats, but also long processes and changes. This is what I wanted to emphasize, that the cantinera figure has had an evolution towards the cantinero.
Maggie Bullen: There is also play with gender, as Xabier has pointed out, with the suffixes -a and -or in Spanish. In Euskera there are not so many problems, but the language itself shows us how gender is marked and then puts it in doubt. What is at stake is gender. And why do we associate a way of being a woman or a man with a role in our Alarde and folklore in general?
The issue of gender is boiling, especially because there will be a man in the canteen. One of the themes of the conference was that it is naturally addressed.
X C: Naturalness is a very nice word, but it must be used very carefully. There are natural things, but actually everything is cultural. In other words, we have to take into account how we see nature and how we act upon it. That would be culture, without going deeper. But when we say here we are talking about naturalness, about uncoded naturalness. Some things have come this way and, in this case, we have used the term naturalness in the case of Antxon [Jauregi Vidal, cantinera of the like company San Miguel]. At least, it has not been much questioned or much dust has not been lifted. Imagine what happened 27 years ago when women wanted to get into roles other than canteen.
M. B: From anthropology we avoid the words natural, nature and naturalness a little, because the opposite has always been understood. I mean, culture is nature. It's like gender and sex, like saying sex is natural and gender is social. But today we know that sex and nature are also facts, they're invented.
It is very common to say ‘things have to happen naturally’, but I do not think so. Humans invented everything. Same for men or women. In my speech, I emphasized the person. Justuki, this morning I've been reading an Argia supplement about Monique Wittig, and the other day I commented on Simon de Beauvoir's phrase: "Women are not born, they are made." But Wittig said, "The woman is not born," and then he cut off the phrase. He argued that being a lesbian is completely different and that the woman is made, but only a kind of woman, that in reality there are a lot of women. He wanted to break that model. “It is not born, but it is done, and he did not want to.” I was talking about how to say lesbian, but I would say that we want to have the opportunity to tell a man, a woman or a person in a plural way.
The origin of the cantinera figure is unknown. What is a cantinera?
M.B: Why does the cantinera create the problem and not another Alarde figure? The cantinera symbolizes much more than a choreographic role. It says something about the model of women, about society, about social relations, about power relations… If you question the cantín, you cost not only the Alarde system, but also the gender system of society. The gender system of society falls. If you put a cantiner in the place of the cantinera, that puts into question the gender system reflected in the Alarde. It has happened and we have some doubts.
Although it has come out and approved in Antxo and has had a continuous process, like everyone else. Being in favour of the Egalitarian Alarde does not mean being in favour of the singers. There is no opposition, but there are doubts. In feminism, trans issues are on the table and friction is emerging. We must talk because we do not all agree.
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