What state do you have?

If we've been nervous: they accuse us of terrorism, we go to the National Audience -- it's normal. But we also go with the strength of Christ, for the support we have received in recent weeks.

The allegation is based on a report by the Ertzaintza investigating it for money laundering. What does the report say?

They say that in 2018 they found a hole in which our fingerprints were. In theory, that is the essence of the report. But over time, we realized it wasn't an operation that brought us to find, I don't know what things. These accounts occupy very little space in the report, while our political militancy is judged on many pages: what role we have had on the Abertzale left, what act we have been with, with whom ... The report reveals that this is an operation that has been cooked over the years. They link us to terrorism by justifying that we are militants of the Abertzale Left.

You have publicly denounced police persecution before being arrested in 2018.

It is the same persecution that we have experienced by many young people in this town. Hundreds, thousands of young people have organized themselves within the Abertzale left for years, and we know the consequences that this entails: police persecution, trials...

I have experienced different episodes, strange controls from the hand of the Ertzaintza... Aitor has also suffered these situations. Then we know it wasn't a fluke. For years, they're completing your history, all of that is collected, and now they're using it against us, against our political militancy.

Can you advance the kind of defence that you are going to carry out at the National High Court?

We are not going to hide anything, we are going to Madrid to claim our political militancy. For us, the trial is not legitimate, the National Court is not fair, it is not legitimate to continue to beat this people under terrorism. It is clear to us that we are going to claim our militancy.

High demands for punishment, the National Court, the prosecutor of the Altsasu trial... What odours do you have in judgment?

These days we're saying this is a lottery. And of the tickets we have -- when the prosecutor is the same as at Altsasu's trial, and Judge Angela Murillo, what will I tell you? You probably want to stick with us.

At the end of the Saturday demonstration, you said that the PNV and the Ertzaintza are directly responsible for what you are living.

It is undeniable. This is not an operation coming from the Spanish State. The fire has been cooked by the Ertzaintza and the PNV, which have begun to burn normally. They could have done all this very differently, but they've done it in the same way that they know it: shrink mediately from the very beginning, relate it to the strategy of an armed organization ...

What concerns us is not the concrete of the hole, we are concerned about how the thousands of pages they have filled have been written, where and for what purpose. That's the most terrible thing. We wonder why the PNV has so much interest in engaging in other scenarios. Why they continue to work together with a strategy, we know what it has meant for this people: suffering, repression... and, above all, fighting political dissent.

You're 28, when the armed struggle officially disappeared, you were 19, and now, almost 10 years later, you're going to be judged by terrorism in a Madrid emergency court. How do you live it, how do the young people of your age live it?

Above all, questions arise. What interest is there in keeping this ghost of terrorism alive? The terrorism that our generation has known has been that of the states, we have not experienced any other reality. The answer to the question is clear: instead of taking steps forward, instead of releasing the knots from the conflict, they prefer to defend other interests.

We can give some examples of terrorism that we've known. Just yesterday [Monday] we saw that in this town it is cheaper to kill a person than to be a political dissident. We have already seen the legal consequences of the murder of Iñigo Cabacas. [Laughs]. It has no grace, but it gives the laughter of a sense to call ourselves terrorists.

In this sense, what do you think of the ethical ground that demands of the left Abertzale, of self-criticism, of the rejection of violence...?

With great anger. You see that for years it has been an armed organization that has been the excuse not to allow your political activity to develop in a standardised way. There is now no armed organization and the excuse has become apparent.

The Abertzale left has made self-criticism and has taken many steps. The Spanish State remains in the same position, in which we are also part of the PNV. For example, how is it possible to talk about ethical soil when two days ago they entered Donostia to break down young people? How do they talk about terrorism when they raise the bill of light in the midst of a pandemic and a freeze, when we are living in a social drama? They should wash their mouths before calling us terrorists.

What you and Aitor are experiencing is hard, you say that others live the same. Is it worth it?

[Laughs] Yes, of course, of course, of course. We take part in the suffering, a little bit for generality. We have experienced barbarism in this people. Those who call us terrorists have tortured hundreds of Basques in the police stations of the Ertzaintza and, as far as I know, neither the PNV nor the Ertzaintza have said anything. What have we suffered? Yes. What will we suffer? Yes. But we decided to bring this people to freedom and to live in peace. Over and above all the obstacles that put us on that path, this will for freedom will prevail.

If we weren't political activists, we wouldn't be the way we are, this is our life, it's a way of living.

You mentioned the torture of the Ertzaintza. Did you suffer torture during detention?

We were not tortured, but the arrest was extremely violent. There was no need for him to enter late in the night, with the weapons at his neck, the miracle sheets, over two or three and a half hours... Don't get tortured, but it leaves you a psychological footprint. They didn't let us sleep all night, illuminating every moment, opening for a few minutes the window... Torture is not, but they have other, effective instruments.

Detention could be very different. What do you seek by acting like this? That you link your political militancy to those consequences, to introduce fear into the body. They get it on a level, but on top of that there are many more things, which are the ones that prevail and never understand.

For your support, the ANkerkeria Stop initiative has emerged, which last Saturday held a massive demonstration in Vitoria-Gasteiz.

The truth is, we didn't expect so many people. We were somewhat surprised, especially given the difficulties and fears that exist in this pandemic situation. We don't know how to thank all the work that is being done from the platform and from the different organizations on the left Abertzale. We left there very happy, very strong, with great support, that's gasoline to go to Madrid.