Mati Iturralde Martínez de Lizardui (Vitoria-Gasteiz, 1958) is a doctor and lives in Zuia, where he works as a computer scientist at the Basque Institute of Health. This week he has given a conference in the village to report on the coronavirus and deal with the "collective hysteria" that is spreading. He says policies to deal with the virus are failing: "We have to assume that we are going to get infected and put forces and means to protect and protect the most vulnerable," he added. On the other hand, it has expressed concern about the xenophobic messages being issued against certain groups and has ensured that one cannot speak.

What do we know about the epidemic?

More and more, and above all, China's contribution. At first, especially in Europe and EE.UU, they wanted to question the measures imposed by the Chinese government, because it was a sample of military command, fascism... And the truth is that time has proven to be effective, and it's controlled in a country where there was a tremendous epidemic. That is what we know.

Has that strategy not worked here?

The Chinese strategy was intended to be implemented here, but in a light way. In Italy, and here in part too, an attempt has been made to implement a strategy to curb the virus, but it is true that the social and political culture here is not the same, because individualism is very heavy, and it is working. We are very different societies and in our society the welfare of all is not as important as in China; here everyone wants to save himself, protect his small environment and no measures are put in place for the common good. When these strategies are implemented here, they don't work.

Is our healthcare system capable of controlling the virus?

Since the beginning of the health crisis, governments have argued that the public system is capable of controlling the situation and is demonstrating that it is not capable every day. The system is not flexible and is not organized to respond to this situation, so at this moment the hospitals are about to collapse and in primary care most of the health centers in Vitoria-Gasteiz do not have patients. The imbalance generated by fear is observed. If you don't explain well what the process is going to be and what it's going to do, people's reaction will be negative, until services collapse.

What measures should be taken?

It's hard to say, but what we've seen so far is that the virus has a huge impact on the elderly and the most vulnerable. We must take care of them and protect them from other people, and we all have to accept that we have the opportunity to get infected, which is not going to be serious, but we must avoid reaching those vulnerable people with the disease. Collective life must be organised in this respect.

Is the closure measure appropriate?

It is not effective, it may be in a very small part the route of transmission for not having children, but the measure taken is the one that has the least economic cost. What happens to children also happens to adults, and there's no question of closing Mercedes or Michelin for the fortnight, and maybe it's more effective, because there's a lot of people moving around. A light measure has been taken, because other measures would be very expensive.

There has therefore been an economic assessment.

From the very beginning. For example, the isolation decision taken in Italy was due to the fact that the health system was overtaken and could not receive more people. Here, too, we are going down that road. On the day that the Basque Government appeared, I expected stricter measures to be taken than I expected, Vitoria to be closed, and they have not done so, but I do not know whether they will be able to maintain it. Everything is focused on gaining time and facing the virus. Maybe that moment is over and we have to think about how to protect the weak and the old people, and everyone else has to accept that that virus is going to be in our lives, now and in the next few years.

Is the fear that is opening up worrying? What's going on in supermarkets, for example?

That doesn't worry me that much, because consumption is consumption. I'm more concerned about how far this collective hysteria can go. Fear changes people's attitude towards the other and places them completely in a scheme of individualism. Everyone wants to save themselves and that is what worries me at the moment. During these days, the people working in health care have received many racist messages against the Roma ethnicity, shameful comments, and that attitude is intensifying. Individualism is a great burden of fear, and that is very dangerous in an unstructured society like ours. People are tired and survive situations; and when they are wrapped up in that collective hysteria so as not to catch the virus, they look for their enemies, who are always the weakest.

How do we face fear?

On the one hand, it is up to us to demand information and not to believe everything that is said on television. We are adults and we must know how to differentiate them and know that we cannot have accurate information at all times. On the other hand, we must understand that the virus will probably be with us, that we will get infected and take care of the most vulnerable in the area.

What steps should be taken by the government?

The priorities must be set well and the weakest must be taken care of. And secondly, if you see that the system is overflowing, if you cannot welcome everyone, you will have to take action and socialise healthcare companies. For example, in Vitoria-Gasteiz there is a private hospital: Why can't you use those beds in a moment? Hospital care units have beds that cannot be extended. Therefore, effective strategies must be articulated to avoid this scenario, with more beds, more professionals. Society must also be held accountable, taking care of them, since many people can be cared for at home. There's a protocol in the hospitals and you have to follow it.