In recent weeks you have repeatedly denounced the treatment suffered by the elderly in the two nursing homes of Álava and the attitude of the administration. Let's go one by one. What happened in the residence of the Alaveses of Vitoria?

A family member came in contact with us, was very ill because of the treatment being given to his mother, had already filed complaints in the residence. He had also come to the Ertzaintza because he had received an anonymous letter from an alleged worker of the company, who was drunk. The letter denounced the lack of professionalism or derogatory treatment with the elderly of some of the workers and concluded as follows: "Take great care of your relatives and be attentive." In the Ertzaintza they told him that it was very serious what was denounced in the letter, citing the names and surnames of some workers, who were ill-treatment. The woman has received a second anonymous and has returned to the Ertzaintza [ARGIA has talked to a former worker of this residence and, although she has preferred not to give interviews, has reiterated the mistreatment and comments denouncing the anonymous correspondence]. After collecting the testimonies of more relatives, we sent a complaint to the press, and the Member became nervous.

What did Diputación do?

A PNV spokesman accused us of creating a "social alarm"; no, if there is an alarm, we have not created it. The Deputy met with some of her relatives and undertook to carry out a special inspection. They wanted to give the feeling of doing something, but at the moment the situation has not changed.

It is a residence of public ownership (Diputación) but of private management (IMQ and Corporación Mondragón), new in Álava and the first in its model. Deputy General Ramiro González said when he opened in 2023 that he was a “vanguard” and announced his intention to expand the model. What do you think?

They call it concerted, but after all, it's private. It has done much harm to the Member to denounce the situation of the residence of the Alaveses, who sold it as a jewel. We are clear that care has to be public, but management has turned it into a business. Be public both in homes and in home services. They say it is not possible, but in Pamplona we have seen how the new government has made home aid public. It's possible.

Secondly, they have also criticised the situation of the San Roque de Llodio residence. What have you reported?

In August a woman came to us, she has a man in the residence, she has several pathologies, three cancers, a terrible pain... The attitude of the man towards the workers was apparently not good, so the Member notified him of a dossier opening, with two fines, of EUR 200 and EUR 600, as if it were a car. The woman went with the man to the specialist, who verified that the treatment was not administered at the residence due to sexual aggression. That's why he suffered terrible pain, and that's why he behaved like this. The specialist spoke with the doctor of the residence, changed treatment and since then the man has no problem with the workers of the residence.

The woman filed a complaint at the residence in July, but the director received it and did not give her entry registration. We told him to come back, it was September, so they did give him the check-in, and after a week Uraran called him by phone. He told him that he had not submitted the claim in due time, so he could not legally take the fine away from him, but that he could perhaps make a discount of EUR 200.

Last week you made new complaints about the same residence.

The woman told us that there were more relatives who wanted to send us their grievances, and we went there. They told us, among other things, how the elderly change their diapers more easily in view, or how those who need help walking spend the entire day without getting out of the wheelchair.

Following this last complaint, MEP General Gonzalez and MEP Gorka Uraran were against you. In addition to denying the allegations, they have said that they have put the workers in the spotlight and praised their work.

They've taken all the artillery up against us. On Monday we recorded a letter from the Member denouncing what was happening and asking for solutions. On Tuesday, González appeared at a press conference as the best actor, he was just missing the skylight to cry: the workers are the best in the world, we are against them and how we can say that... In the case of the Alavesa residence they did the same. Yesterday [Wednesday, October 16] González and Uraran himself appeared in San Roque, giving soap to the workers and praising their work, meeting with some relatives, knowing whom to talk to and with whom not. It seems that some of you are angry with us.

That is why today we have issued a new warning, saying that we have always been in favour of the workers, we have always joined in their struggles.

From Zaintza Araba it has been said that the treatment given to the elderly by some workers is not the right one, but the Member has become responsible for this. Why?

The Administration has now set up a course, which will last for about three months and with 80 hour practices. That is clearly not enough. We say that there is a lack of professionalism, but that is why it is not the fault of the workers, they take the title, and then the directors of residences, for example, do not form in their own tasks. From there, the level of empathy with the residents? As everywhere, some more and others less.

In addition, salaries are an absolute poverty in private individuals. There is not even a labour agreement in Álava! In Gipuzkoa and Bizkaia, at least, that is what the workers have. Under these conditions, they must monitor, put washing machines, remove clothes and put them in closets, clean them, cook food in some places... With this kind of workload, surveillance cannot be done properly.

Uraran has assured that the Provincial Council argues that the ratios are met and that in some part of San Roque's role there is even a tripling of the number of workers.

One thing is, what are the ratios and how many workers there are, but if you don't hit the casualties, for example, it's not real. In any case, the established user ratios do not serve adequately and it is the Administration that has the capacity to correct the situation.

Have you spoken to those in charge of the residences?

We meet with the family because we are no one in front of the management. But we tell family members that they have to talk to those in charge if they need help. If you ask us to go with them yes, we go and accompany them with everything they need.

What about the workers?

We have great problems talking to the workers. Family members are afraid to report, imagine the workers. San Roque is public and yet what a fear! Two people have contacted us, but as if we were in times of secrecy. Fear, because inside there is tremendous pressure from managers. In the case of the private ones, they won't open their mouths because they know that if you tell something to a relative the next day they're on the street. At Arabarren, we have a mediator to be able to talk to a worker, but also as if it were a hole.

Before starting the interview I was told that today two family members have called you to denounce the situation that they live in the other two residences. What is the general situation of the residence in Álava?

During the pandemic, it became clear what was happening in the residences. Most audiences work very well. San Roque de Laudio is public, the problem is that the number of workers is too small and that they cannot work well, it is not their responsibility. The private sector is another world. We have just received the report on a horror film. I'm going to explain some situations to you: in one residence, the cook is only Monday through Friday and on the weekend they have been given cans sardines for dinner; in another, as there are few workers, residents spend ten days without having a shower, relatives go to shower; or the person who came to us yesterday, saying that he carries food in the tuper to the mother because the lot has slimmed down by the shortage of food. This is the situation at the moment in the private, not all, but in most cases.

You tell me that it is the first administration that has the capacity to correct the situation. How?

In March we met Uraran and proposed to him to set up a forum where family members, the Council and private residences, including those arranged, will meet. Because most family members receive some help paying for private residence, because they are very expensive. Family members would have the opportunity to share what they see and the Deputy to solve the problems that are detected. That would not lead to the situations in which we have arrived. But they don't want to.