How does COVID-19 affect food, health, our relationship with nature…?

MIKELA UNTSAIN: I'm a beekeeper in Azkaine. The time of confinement hasn't changed especially my work on the mountain with the bees. Yes, on the other hand, the way to sell, because I sell everything directly. In spring, we were banned from making fairs, then they accepted it and we started, but the markets started slower ... We have therefore created baskets at home to sell them outside the markets. In the markets sales have been greatly reduced, but in the baskets system that we have made at home, people demand: they want to talk to the producer, a few have joined local productions, local farmers, our culture, the most natural and local food ... a few have really been interested.

ANE GOROSABEL: The closure of the markets was one of the first containment measures and this has had its effect, as this is an image that has remained in the citizenry and that the direct sale was not safe, yes, the sale in the department stores. We were pushed into a concrete model. That didn't last long, but I think it left the trail, and in the markets that stays, I don't know for fear ... At the same time, supermarket cooperatives have experienced an increase in containment.

LOOK SAIZ: Another factor in the time of confinement was time: people were at home and had more time to cook and eat. To have a healthy diet and consume fresh local products, it takes time to buy and cook. We lived running in times before lockdown and we didn't take that space out for conscious cooking. That is why more people have also been encouraged to buy these kinds of products.

A. Gorosabel: Neither had I changed much during the lockdown on a daily basis. Socialization areas like everyone were reduced, but the day to day of the farmhouse did not change. Spring followed its course and the work of the farmhouse became inevitable. I don't have anyone needing special care in the area, and I enjoyed the lockdown. It was a gift to me.

Does what is promoted by public institutions have an impact on citizens' "free choices"?

A. Gorosabel: The food system being promoted by the administrations is unique and precise. This containment measure was clearly visible. We feel that we're free, that when we go to a site and we see the shelves full, we have the freedom to put what we want in our bag. But who really decides what's on that shelf? It is a false freedom that they sell us and they are committed to a concrete model.

M. UNTSAIN: Yes, of course. The markets were stopped, so were many producers... in my case honey is preserved, but what do all those who had vegetables, milk or meat? Where to sell it, how to organize it? Making it from one day to the next has been very complicated. However, supermarkets had no problems opening, to ensure safety... It is a terrible contradiction to me, but it is.

If we have the opportunity, it's a big issue: if there are opportunities, then the powers, they're different. A thousand jobs, most of them in a short time. However, there is a minority, aware of this, who make their own life possibilities, eating things from here, driving the local economy, culture and dwellings, driving the dynamics of neighborhoods. Some people have that clear choice, and they come to the trade shows to consume, they work in the village -- not everyone can do it, it's hard for everyone. But awareness is no small thing, and it is the producers’ job to offer our products: I have made the choice, I will make less honey and pollen, but I sell it in my country and 5 kilometres from here. And for me it will be enough. I'm not going to sell in San Sebastian, or Baiona, but I sell in my environment some quality, made by myself, for the people there.

M. SAIZ: Yes, and those people have maintained the production of small farmers during the lockdown. The first thing the Basque Government did was to close the trade shows, but some villages remained and tried to resize the trade shows. The new routes that emerged during the confinement for daily production were the result of the work between the population and the producers: the small producers have joined by districts to make reparations, they have organized themselves, they have created websites and groups of watsap to get their production and that people continue to guarantee their healthy food. We have not seen this from the administrations.

In the head of conscious citizenship, the importance of buying the local is very much stressed. What is the difference between local and agroecology?

A. Gorosabel: Local products are self-produced. Nothing else. With many local *, because many of the products that are sold as from here need a lot of products from outside. The product under ikurrina is produced in the Basque Country and is already there. On the contrary, agroecology does not have an economic benefit in the centre, but aims to change the entire food system, taking into account the social economy, the social model and mutual relations.

M. UNTSAIN: In the agroecological sector, there is a key word: respect. The first is respect for the land, respect for the animals we work on -- for example, I'm a beekeeper, and you can also make beekeeping in the almost industrialized model, and the choice I've made is not that. To my extent, it has been my choice to work with the autochthonous bee, to take advantage of the indigenous flowers, I have created my profession, and it is also an example, not only on a commercial level, but to sell quality in our closest environment. Therefore, I can find that word of respect for the land, animals and my profession (because I like that work because of my character, everyone fulfills their work), respect for the people and also customers, because we offer a quality product for their health, for their children and for adult people... Agro-ecological and respect always go at the same time.

Because you can make industrial cultivation. There are several models: There are thousands of pigs in Brittany, there are thousands of cows in France - there is no respect for them.

A. Gorosabel: Yes, the word agroecological is often confused with the word ecological. While agro-ecology responds to specific techniques of production of organic products, it has everything else.

M. SAIZ: One of the keys to agroecology is the measure. The productions promoted in agroecology are tailor-made for people. If it is a local production that has a thousand cows, for us it is not agroecological. Because we are convinced that respect is not guaranteed, neither to animals, nor to the local population, to the environment... the measure is very important. That is why, when we look at ikurrina, we buy the product to protect local production, but we have to take into account the production model behind that product. And does the ikurrina of the supermarket indicate that it has taken place there? Or has it been transformed there? Or has the product been sold? Because we know that cider is made here with Polish apples: it has been produced here, but the apple has been brought from Poland or Romania. The size is very important, it guarantees that the whole process has been carried out here and that the whole process has been carried out by the producer or by the collective project.

A. Gorosabel: Yes, we have to regain the right to know the products. It is our responsibility to know what is behind what we buy: who, how and where it has been produced.

M. SAIZ: And it's very difficult. On the one hand, we're a little ruthless, but on the other hand, they make it very difficult for us. Advertising is very false, the terminology used is also -- they've taken over the language. Seen the imaginary, you believe that it is really made with local products and as always...

ARGIA has named the conference cycle "Breaking the Ice." What should we put the force to break the ice and work a respectful life?

M. SAIZ: To break the ice and learn lessons from confinement, time is critical. We've seen that we can work differently and feel better when we put time in other things. We're going to continue that, we're really going to give you time to buy right, to cook right, to get the information we need -- if we need time for it, we're going to have to take it out of somewhere else. It is our responsibility to decide what we spend our time on. If we cannot go alone, we will have to go to the collective: if I can only not receive complete information about a product and a process, surely there is a collective that has that information, or I can join others and get information, I don’t know where to get a product… there are projects underway. Priority must be given to what we spend our time on and to the empowerment of the groups.

A. Gorosabel: To break the ice, you have to start to be radical and break down this feeding system from the top down and completely dump it. To do so, we should be aware of the power we have as citizens. In our hands is the motto of ARGIA "txikitik eragin," there's the key. We've been taken away from that power, we've been led to believe that there are monsters who decide for us, and no, the key is in us. We have to recover it. If we want us to become a sovereign people, we cannot leave production in the hands of others, we cannot delegate what we eat to others, we have to maintain that knowledge and complete it with the new knowledge that comes. That's where agroecology is betting. Our production projects are committed to maintaining this knowledge, building it from popular construction and permanently building alliances with other farmers and the people. It's in us, and we have to believe that we're the key.

M. UNTSAIN: It is a difficult issue. If I break the ice, I won't be so radical. But yes, it's up to us to make decisions and see what each one's priority is. We have had time to do things differently. The rapid and daily march has been relaxed a little, and they have come to think a lot about what their priority is. What's the priority, making more money? Have a great car? Have a good job in a company? It seems to me that there are people who have realized that this model is not in respect to the personality of each one, that preferences can be otherwise, eating quality things, consuming less… I do not know why we consume so much: both in clothing, by car, as in food (buying a lot to throw a lot or not to dress after buying a lot of clothing)... much less consume, recover time and make their own choices in life. I think that is where we have to go, the farmers and the citizens, each finding their way.

M. SAIZ: Another way to break the ice is to pay attention to what we've seen in this time, what really matters. We have seen that the work of the baserritars is a priority, and we must take care of it: the work of the baserritars here, but also of the workers who come from outside. It has been very hard to see the conditions under which people who have come from other countries have been and how badly they have gone without protection, putting their health at risk so that we eat, produce or harvest -- we have always known that, but during the pandemic we have seen it clearer and we cannot look elsewhere. We must give it the importance it has, denounce violations of human rights and show solidarity with people who come from other countries.

Looking to the future, how do you see the agroecological movement of the Basque Country?

A. Gorosabel: The situation of agroecology in the Basque Country is harsh, we are very dependent on food from outside: This is 1-2% of what you eat in the Basque Country, and the rest comes from outside. I have the impression that we are going to a homogeneous diet worldwide, that in Canada, Australia and Euskal Herria you can eat the same thing. All avocados, papayas and at any time of the year.

The challenge of agroecology is to install more young people, we need more farmers and farmers, and it's not easy. We have to make this sector attractive, tell the people who come, "Stay, there's possibility and it's possible to live from it." The reality is economically precarious and it is very difficult to reach the grounds, if you have no inheritance or land nearby and a minimum to start.

It is difficult, because what is sought and administratively assisted is greatness and intensification. Getting out of there and finding your own diversification (I will have a nettle and some chickens, and...) is not accompanied by the administration. The picture is not fortunate, but there's the challenge, and that's why we're here to turn it around and say it's not late.

M. UNTSAIN: The situation is not simple, the land in Iparralde is very expensive, it is very difficult to install it in the crop. But at least in Iparralde there are more and more people who want to live from agriculture and if there are more associations: Idoki, Trebatu, Laborantza ganbara, Arrapitz, Biharko Lurra Elkartea... we are organizing more and more farmers, in another model, not in industrial cultivation. If there are more and more young people: In the French state, Iparralde is the country where more young farmers are setting up. It's a young people's installation dynamic, and I think it's picking up speed. Some institutions developed by farmers are creating a dynamic, driving young people forward, making facilities easier -- even if it's very difficult.

A. Gorosabel: The young people we are setting up in recent years are aware, we decided to be in the sector from a political choice. Awareness already existed in the sector, but from a political point of view it is increasingly present in promoting sustainable models.

M. UNTSAIN: And we take the choices we make, we don't swallow everything. We make some choices in our way of life, in our way of working, and those choices are becoming more and more accepted. These are political choices. Little ones, but there they are. That gives us some freedom and strength. Even if it's small, we have strength.

A. Gorosabel: And it's a nice activity, albeit economically precarious, despite putting many hours of work in. Right now, I wouldn't change my job for another salary. I'm there because I want to be and because I think it's possible to live in an orderly way.

M. SAIZ: There is strength and there are those who opt for it. But to turn the situation around, we need something else. Change must be a dignified and attractive profession, and that must be driven by the administrations, otherwise an imbalance of forces towards us will not be achieved. In the neoliberal system, we see with whom the administrations are aligned. We must do our utmost by promoting what is there, but also by denouncing and demanding from our administrations that they must protect both agriculture and the fisheries sector. It is in their hands and it is in our hands to demand it.