The City Hall of Vitoria-Gasteiz has been around for years. How did it come? What were their functions then? And how have they changed?
As I studied engineering, I approached the Basque environment through several groups that organized cultural activities at the university. At the end of my career, while I was looking for work in my area, an AEK friend told me that I had a chance to give some classes until something came out. I started that way, and nothing else to notice, I spent 15 years there. Then it was impossible to go back to engineering. I went to the Basque Department. I started there eighteen years ago. Now it gives me a little bit of vertigo, because I think it was yesterday morning.

At that time strategic plans were being implemented in municipalities, in line with the General Plan for the Promotion of the Use of the Basque Country. That's what I got in. There have been three generations in the Basque services. The first was regulated: ordinances, services, translation, Basque learning courses, grants... Most organizational aspects. When we entered the Euskera Service we found that the workers were closely linked to Euskaldunization, which taught Euskera courses (especially for parents), but there were also subsidies to promote Euskera in the street.

When we arrived, it was a commission. “You must meet with the actors of the Basque industry and draw up a strategic plan for a period of 4-5 years.” At that time the Council was also drawing up its own strategic plan. So we learned what a SWOT was, and since then the SWOT has appeared to us everywhere.

Over time it realizes that from one strategic plan to another the objectives are repeated, that innovations are needed and that innovations will come from elsewhere. The key is how to dynamize society, how to create a social dynamic… In that sense, the idea of governance is very strong. What we have lived through has been a transit or a transition to it.

In these years there have been political changes in the City Hall. Is there a lot of difference between municipal governments? What are those times of change of government like?
In all transitions there is a small stop. When the party in the government also changes, it has an effect, we will not lie. Each party gives you the framework within which you have to work, but you have to demystify it. The influence of the government party is there, but also that of the responsible councilor: what is his will, what game the technicians give to work… Also important is the social support of the line promoted by the Basque service and to what extent it has been agreed with the opposition. If you take good care of all these things, even if you notice changes, you have to relativize them. There is always room for work.

What is the possibility that the Basque service has to influence other municipal and administrative areas? What is the relationship like today? Cross-sectional
linearity is transformed in a way into a totem word. On the one hand, it seems that everything has to be a cross-cutting line, that a linguistic policy has to be achieved in all departments. On the other hand, however, it is true that some public policies cannot be carried out from a single department. This is also the case with the issue of diversity. It doesn't belong to anyone, but it belongs to everyone. It is not a question of making language policy in all departments. There are departments that have to meet to make comprehensive policies and within that we have to be linguistic policy. And that's complicated. What we have experienced is that advances and setbacks are continually alternating. The relationships that are woven within the City Hall have a lot to do with it.

If we look from the outside, a few decades ago, we would not connect Gasteiz with the Basque country. But in recent years we have received news of initiatives and projects related to Euskera. Is anything changing?
As for the presence of the Basque Country, a very nice piece of work has been done for several years. This work has been largely down the road of education. And the work of the Euskaltegis has also been very important. The fact that there are so many Basque people from where we were from has come from the hand of these two factors. Currently, the percentage of people who are able to understand Euskera is around 49%. There's been a big change. If we look at young people, three out of four under 35 are able to understand Euskera. Capacity and opportunity to generate other dynamics.

On the return of the Basque phase, we tried to highlight the doors that can open the role of belarriprest in Vitoria. If there's a place with that potential, it's Vitoria. We should become “Belarriprest City.” This would significantly increase the use of Euskera.

The presence of the Basque industry is important. Initially, Euskaltegis were the engine of Basque cultural activity. Associations of the Basque Country, Kontseilua, Euskal Herrian Euskaraz and other institutions were then set up, forming a solid Basque cultural activity. The road has been crossed by crises and ups and downs, but in general it has had a strong dynamic.

From a quantitative point of view, Vitoria has euskaldunized itself is spectacular and it is very difficult to find another case of this kind in Europe and in the world. But that's got another turn. The Euskaldunes of Vitoria-Gasteiz are young, many have learned Euskera in school and are probably easier to do it in Spanish. From a qualitative point of view, there are some weaknesses that must be taken into account. The current reality is better than the previous one, but look, we cannot be triumphalist. Here's a lot to do.

With regard to these Euskaldunized young people in school, do you see any special key?
The spaces and networks of relationships are the keys. The ones that work in Euskera and the ones that you like. We can do some things, but they have to do them to succeed. At the same time, we need to lay the foundations for raising awareness. "We are here and this can go from one side to the other depending on the decisions you make. Know where we came from and where we are and decide on that basis."

Today there are things that can be done only in Basque with young people. As has already been mentioned, three out of four children under the age of 35 understand this and, if the age is lowered, 90% can be reached.

Do you see the Euskera movement in the city in a healthy way?
In many schools it has not been seen as part of the Basque cultural activity, but there is a nice movement there: the Euskera commissions of the students, the technicians responsible for the Ulibarri program, the associations of parents…, together with the GEU association, have started to create the Euskera associations of the neighborhoods. And then we must highlight what we do not fully understand in Basque, the associations that, among other objectives, also work in Basque. And to include it now, we have to take the steps. What can be broadly understood as the Basque industry to enter Vitoria-Gasteiz. It is a meeting point and the City Hall too. There is already a task. There has always been penetration and connection, but there is still work.

Another interesting phenomenon is Alea Journal. It's been running for about ten years. It filled the gap left by Geu magazine and today plays a fundamental role in Álava and Vitoria.

How should we address the issue of linguistic diversity?The diversity of origins
and languages has greatly increased in recent years in Vitoria-Gasteiz and has been concerned about the issue. At Carme Junyent we have made an appointment when talking about this topic: “It has every chance of losing small languages in a bilingual context; it may be more likely to move forward in a situation of linguistic plurality.” It does not harm us. On the contrary, it is good for the Basque Country to reflect that diversity, because it serves to broaden interest, respect and responsibility towards languages.

Do cities have a differentiated role in the revitalization of Euskera?It has been said
that the revitalization of Euskera is at stake in the cities. As far as quantity is concerned, people are meeting and gathering more. The networks of relationships are more complex and services are concentrated in them. In view of this complexity of cities, we should aim to increase the character of Basque cultural activity. In addition to the groups specifically working on Euskera, we should promote new leadership that reinforces the revitalization of Euskera in all areas. That the players in the sector should have an active role in favour of Euskera in the field of trade, workshops, leisure or any other. These groups that we consider peripheral in Euskalgintza should be located closer to the city center, taking into account the complexity of the relationships mentioned above.

Is the possibility of shared governance of language policy being extended beyond the local framework?
It's happening in part. A few steps are being taken. This does not mean that there are no tensions or incidents. When people with different points of view get to work together, tensions arise, contradictions occur and disagreements occur. It's about how this is managed. Work must be done on agreed minima, knowing that criticism and discrepancies will be generated and that this must be acknowledged. It is doing so, but there is no doubt that more needs to be done.

As for linguistic policy, where is society moving, towards increasing consensus or towards divergence?
Some social questions have not been asked. If we start to define precisely what kind of society we want, the discrepancies will come out. But if we try to diagnose the current situation and decide a direction, we will surely have more chances of consensus.

It follows sociolinguistic studies and theoretical developments. Would you highlight any current or idea to pay attention to?
I follow these things from curiosity. The theory of the revitalization of the Basque Country will necessarily be a theory of social transformation. Language revitalization is a social transformation. Current research and studies focus on this relationship. In relation to sociology, to social innovation and also to public administration theory. All this has to be taken into account, because it influences the revitalization of the Basque country.

A few years ago, we thought we could read everything that was published on the subject. Today it is impossible. It's dizzy to try to follow all the existing dynamics.

The work being done on activation is very interesting to me. If the only way to change this is through a large group of critical active people, how do you do it to get it done? There's a key there.

Do you know of any model to successfully connect public policies and social activism?
There is a parallel to environmentalism, for example. There is a concern in public administration, an activism that has been going on for many years, an academic environment that takes the issue more and more seriously… The problems are similar: the discrepancies in the rhythms, in the measures to be taken… And the inability to make decisions knowing what should be done. I see parallelism, but I don't know if that's where we can learn a lot.

From feminism, we also have a lot to learn about activation. It's becoming a topic to say this, but in recent years they've taken a step back and we have something to learn. In recent years we have met several sessions and conferences on the relationship between feminism and Basque culture, but recently in Gorbeialdea feminism and Basque culture got to a third of the ecology and interesting things came out. That is what we have to look at.