Baskonia and Alavés are the reference in Álava. For years they have received a great deal of public aid...

That's right. In the case of the Alavés, the Provincial Council and the City Hall partly saved the team, and the Baskonia has also received significant subsidies, such as the extension of the pavilion, of around EUR 30 million. To this must be added the information published by ElDiario.es on the debt forgiven by the Member. However, it is not only in Álava, but it is a systematic practice in the Basque Country.

In the Basque Country in general and in Álava in particular, does the question of subsidies generate enough debate, both among politicians and among the rest of society? What is your opinion as an amateur?

In so far as aid is normally received by anonymous associations, the case raises a debate. They are also significant amounts that should be used to cover more pressing needs.

On a political level, unfortunately, the parties do not have the same position in Álava and, for example, in Bizkaia. There they have hardly criticized the support received by Athletic, as the fact of opposing the club does not give any political benefit. Politicians should have a much stronger speech on the aid that all groups receive. I think there's a double moral. At the forefront of the fight against dirty ball in football, basketball and sport in general we are only the amateurs and that is regrettable.

In what direction should public aid for sport go?

By law, the Member has a legal obligation to help the base sport, which is the club that must protect them. Athletic or Osasuna, for example, are clubs, but they are immersed in the dynamics of a capitalist football model, there is not much difference between these teams and the Anonymous Sports Societies SAD, except in the internal organization. Should such a group receive state aid? There are conflicting opinions, it is a very complex issue.

The BAT Basque Team programme responds to the need of the Basque Government to support elite non-professional sport [see table]. Aid for non-professional sport is small, however. Let us take as an example the case of the Gasteiztarra wrestler Maider Unda, who has won a bronze medal at the Olympic Games and the World Cup. She works day and trains in the afternoon. It's not fair. It is not fair the treatment given to some elite sportsmen, even more so if we look at the amount of public and private money that professional football moves.

The problem is that the current sports model is related to capitalism. As an example, let us look at the action of some socialist countries in the Soviet era. They invested a lot of money to the benefit of athletes, putting the centers of high performance at the center, and the results are obvious. No one was left out of the Olympic Games for economic reasons, all of them were professional. That is what we need to ensure, that elite athletes are professionals. It is in this sense that we must devote
our money to the values that sport should convey. That is what we have to criticise, we are not talking about sport, but about a lucrative business in the name of sport. Things must be said as they are.

Some say that to criticize public aid is to demagogy, that these groups give more in taxes than they receive, that in this case they open the name of Álava, that they bring money to Vitoria, that they create jobs… Do you think it is good to measure everything in economic terms?

The benefits of advertising for Álava or any other country are not clear. As far as I am aware, there are no data on this. They say that tourism brings money, and that in the hospitality, for example, that is noted for good. But they are private companies, that is, public money is used to spread the image of Álava, and those who benefit from it are some companies in the area. Of course, jobs can be created. It's the usual argument. In general, it is a precarious job, but it brings the greatest benefit to the capitalist. The debate must be there. What is happening is that when we are told that unemployment is falling, almost nobody is looking at the conditions for new jobs. There is a tremendous trap there, a trap that serves to deceive and manipulate society.