What kind of analysis do you make from Euskal Herria through the Catalan sovereign process?

In our view, each Basque territory must make its own way and process. We have internalized that in society and in the left Abertzale there are three political realities, but we still do not have a loose knot: We must articulate and develop Navarre, the CAV and Iparralde, respecting the political initiative of local citizens, as long as everyone follows their path. The 6th General Assembly of Aralar will be held at the Miramar Palace. This diachronism has been analyzed in the Congress report, stating that in the party, in the coalition and in society the knot has been unleashed. EH Bildu needs more refining and releasing this issue. In any case, EH Bildu has assumed that the rhythms of each reality should be taken into account.

If the step was taken to initiate a secession process only in the CAV, what would Aralar's position be?

That step or not has to be decided by society, the parties have to be at the disposal of society. The Catalan process is an example in this sense. In democracy, in order to give effect to the right to decide, the people must be given the floor, democracy deepens and the process empowers the citizens to decide their futuro.Los matches we do not have to be protagonists, the parties and the institutions have to respond to the demands of society.

“EH Bildu must have a structure beyond parties,” you say. What exactly do you mean by that?

The objective of Aralar has been to structure a broad and plural left from the very beginning. We understand EH Bildu in that direction, EH Bildu is the strong tool that Euskal Herria needs. It must serve to build up forces, but not as a mere party structure, but as a classical coalition. EH Bildu must be open to citizen participation in coalition bodies, as well as decision-making between all and all. We live in a moment of change, society is demanding other forms of politics. Society is tired and angry with politics. I know we all say it now, but ...

Do all EH Bildu parties see it like this? You've all gone through this scheme.

I am not who to assess the path of the other parties in the coalition. Each party experiences its own evolution and is respectable. We have all had to make adjustments on the route. Now the essential thing is that the different abertzal sensibilities of the left work together. The important thing is to maintain cooperation in achieving these objectives, to know how to live up to what this political moment demands. EH Bildu and the Abertzale left are also responding in the line that society demands.

Have you overcome the differences of the past?

Not entirely, but they're getting less and less. It is normal that there are differences. There are not only differences between parties, but also within the party. The difference is not bad, it is positive. Differences contribute to readjust and internalize the nuances of our broad and plural society.

Civil disobedience has been dealt with in the Aralar political report.

Civil disobedience has been used and we will have to work on it in the recent past of this people. In Euskal Herria we have a culture of disobedience, but due to the difficult political situation of recent years, it was deactivated. We want to reactivate civil disobedience to oppose unfair laws, so that those laws do not prevail. We have to recover disobedience as a tool and adapt to the future, as in Catalonia.

The majority parties say that legality must be respected, reproach them that it is a contradiction to act with disobedience against the law.

They fall into their trap. They place legality above all, democracy and people’s rights. However, when the laws – the Spanish Constitution – are used unfairly against people, they lose all legitimacy. Laws must be based on human rights, they must be directed at justice. The Spanish State is the direct heir to the Franco regime, it does not have that navel cut, its dictionary does not recognize the right to decide.

How does the Podemos party or the political phenomenon value?

We can awaken the illusion of citizenship, it is helping to overcome people’s rejection of politics. Citizens needed support and the corruption in state policy is making citizens fall in the street. We can break the state bipartisanship and help to bring about a breakdown that did not occur during the transition.

Is EH Bildu prepared to reach prior agreements in municipal and foreign elections with parties such as Podemos, Irabazi or Equo?

I see no problem if we share objectives and programmes. EH Bildu is very open to all the proposals, and we in the institutions are also working in that direction.

We can work on meeting and politics horizontally. Don’t you have any concern about getting ahead of you in this activity?

Do you worry? Nothing. Since the beginning of Aralar we have worked on the so-called Podemos activity. In our policy, the motto “one member has one vote” is valid. Our operation is very horizontal and in EH Bildu is also in force. Of course, there are things that need to be improved, but that evolution is taking place.

To what extent can we and the Abertzale left join the sovereignty objectives of this people?

We do not know the objectives of Podemos, so far it has been mostly limited to the caste discourse. The entry of Podemos into the policy will be very beneficial if it will claim recognition of the right to decide. That's the main key.

You are a parliamentarian of EH Bildu. What experience have you had in local politics? Have the tensions of the past of the Abertzale left influenced?

I myself am living a very enriching experience. I always wanted Aralar to be in a coalition like EH Bildu. The beginning was difficult, as is the case in all human projects. We in the Basque Parliament did not know each other and it was hard for us to adapt the group. But the sharing of responsibilities was done well, and I am doing it very well, we have a good environment.

On the peace conference in Parliament, where is the difficulty in reaching an agreement with the PNV?

It was the very creation of the peace conference that mortgaged his futuro.Por one side, because it was created under the established conditions. For example, the contents that revolved around the ethical soil are not adequate. If your goal is peace, you must leave without conditions. Common work and consensus must be worked out differently. On the other hand, another error of the PNV was the granting of the right of veto to pp and PSE by both parties. Furthermore, it is a mistake to limit the peace conference to the four main sensitivities, the work of peace cannot be limited to the walls of Parliament, it must be much more open.

On the road to the recognition of the right to decide, how does the PNV policy in Parliament value?

The PNV looks too much at Madrid, is committed to reaching an agreement with those who do not want, who do not want to recognise the right to decide of Basque citizenship. Instead of looking so much at Madrid, the PNV should look at Basque society and start working with Basque parties and social agents to make our way, as they have done in Catalonia.

What is preventing it from doing so?

Different factors...

That everyone wants to achieve their own hegemony?

Some say that, and also the influence of the political past, because elections are often interspersed. But we have to be able to overcome those factors in order to achieve the right to decide of Euskal Herria.

Is there any possibility of reaching an agreement with the Basque Government in the Basque budgets?

We have made a very concrete proposal in the budgets. For example, we are not asking for EUR 600 million more, we are prioritizing some items over others, such as education, health care or social services. In the 2015 budgets there is a debt of EUR 968 million. Perhaps we should look at the debt better and decide what to pay and what not. Conciliation aid for the recovery of family situations has fallen by 40%, emergency aid by 33%. For the children's school consortium there are EUR 4 million less. The Basque Government, for its part, has designed the budgets by applying cuts, which affect 24,000 people. By contrast, 68% of investments have gone to the APR. This train has no connection to the North or the Spanish State.

Andoni Ortuzar has replied that your requests are like letters sent to the Olentzero.

They have been very prepotent and frivolous expressions. At the moment, 45 per cent of families are on the verge of poverty. These families do not have the means or resources to write that one carta.Por, on the contrary, the agencies that control Kutxabank or the TAV do not write to the Olentzero, but send their letter to Sabin Etxea.

Josu Erkoreka said on these pages that he can take on the objectives of EH Bildu, but that they have no proposal when asked how to achieve it.

That is not true. We have made very concrete proposals to them.

For example ...

In the CAV budgets, as has been said. In the creation of the new status paper, we sent a document to the PNV, along the path of our proposal by Euskal Bidea.

What is the key in this case?

Make policy in line with the recognition of the right to decide.

Members of the PNV are also involved in the Ensure esku dago initiative.

See Esku Dago is an important means of promoting and exercising decision-making competence. Their work is essential to bring together as many people as possible, whether it be Abertzale or not, since competition is a matter of democracy. However, along the way, in order to overcome the difficulties that may arise between the parties, it is necessary for citizens to take the lead in giving a subsequent response. In favor, as Artur Mas has shown in Catalonia. It has been able to respond to the demands of society.

Do you see Urkullu on that path?

That is our wish.