What feelings have been generated by the steps taken in recent times by the group of prisoners and ex-prisoners?

For me it has been a kind of continuation of the good feeling that caused me the ETA decision of two years ago. However, you cannot put all the burden aside, ETA and the prisoners are required to take further steps, but the other side does the opposite, as we have seen with the operation against lawyers. Some seem to be concerned about the total disappearance of ETA.

What steps should the various actors take from now on?

In the case of prisoners, the process they have announced should begin as soon as possible and individual requests for the implementation of the General Penitentiary Organic Law. In the case of ETA, the next steps are the dissolution and handing over of arms, but the truth is that for that you need to have someone to prove that handover, something for which the government is unwilling. In any event, even if they are unilateral, ETA should continue to take steps. On the other hand, we must ask the Basque Government not only to look at some, but also to demand that the Spanish Government amend prison policy.

It is precisely Urkullu and Rajoy that have come together to try to find a solution to the crisis.

Yes, but think about the time since you requested the meeting. That is the will of the Spanish Government. It's comfortable and it's not in a hurry. Before that, society has to mobilize and say “until now we have arrived”.

Given the attitude of the Spanish Government, how long will it take before measures are put in place to improve the situation of prisoners?

It's a lottery to talk about time. In any case, three steps must be taken: firstly, the end of the dispersion for all prisoners; secondly, the sick prisoners must go out into the streets, as others have done, because nobody has been forgotten about the case of Galindo; and, finally, those who have served three quarters of the sentence can also go out into the streets. And with the remaining prisoners, if there is will, there are always formulas to fix things, as they were in 77.

The Basque Government is designing the “Hitzeman” integration programme. What characteristics should such a programme have?

I would like to recall that in '82 I was Senator, especially for the prisoners and Self-Employed of the 8th ETA Assembly(pm). There was no demand for repentance or collaboration, but it was a commitment to political means, and people gradually emerged through the pardons. A re-entry plan should be to release prisoners for pardon or for having served three-quarters of the sentence. The reason for his admission to prison no longer exists, ETA has disappeared and does not kill. Anywhere in the world where there has been an armed conflict, the end of that conflict has come through a negotiated agreement between the parties, except here, and that is to close the conflict in lies.

Many prisoners still have many years in prison, what solution do you see for them?

A solution must be found, because the problem no longer exists. While one of the parties has disappeared, the Government has kidnapped people in prisons, which should be resolved within two to three years.

Two or three years? Crime persists and laws persist as well.

But there is also the government’s ability to pardon, for example.

The government is absolutely paralysed.

That is why Basque society has to move. At the moment we are not talking about a political issue, we are talking about human rights. It makes no sense that, after taking the steps that have been taken, a policy of revenge should be pursued. It's the time of society.

And the time of the political parties in Euskal Herria?

I'm pretty amazing about what political parties do. I think this depends on social movements and people. As we are seeing in Catalonia at the political level with the consultation, in our case also society has to move the parties to seek a final solution.