They say you're a kid who's struggling to grow.

I have difficulty installing myself in this mature world. Once in maturity, society requires you to be a certain person, to be responsible, to avoid eccentricities... It is very serious to be an adult, it seems that it only moves around the family and work, and gradually drains the hundreds of spontaneous windows that childhood offers. However, if I find a food somewhere, it's in those slot windows. Yes, and we have to prove that we are always something in the adult world, built in the kingdom of men. Children don't have filters, they don't have prejudices until a certain age, and in the relationship you can say everything. With maturity, on the other hand, masks appear, we demand them and we make other mirrors, we assume that others expect something from us, and that is what we feed. As a man, I realize that publicly I can't tell a man: “I’m sad, I want to cry,” or give a hug for love on the street. We're carrying a backpack full of loads, we're besieged by taboos.

Sometimes we prefer to keep carrying stones rather than emptying the backpack.

But our inner sensations aren't that narrow, it's the ones we're blown away that come out spontaneously. It is channeled when a child is born, thinking that he is incapable of being alone. The worst thing is that it is a problem for parents, not for the child, because it is the parents who have to show the public square how well their child is for the public square to give them the approval. Then, I'm not a 20-year-old. I was born at a time when the world of housing was nothing but work, work and work. At that time, the man who played the role of father had to put on the layer of authority, be cold and severe, punish him when necessary. It was the father, and on the other side, the mother, almost wiped out. When you get into a world like that, you don't know what your models are, you don't know how daemon you are, and you try to build yourself based on what you see outside. But what I saw was hunting and rugby, not nice, sweet and sensitive things. That's why we have a lot of pains in us, which we carry inside like mud, and we wonder endlessly what others of us will think. We all want to be loved, we also do a little theater to be loved, and we deviate from our inner sensations.

Did the past few years in Paris help you to clean up that inner mud?

I was in Paris between 1980 and 1993. In addition, and I say this for the first time publicly, I was prostituting myself. That helped me out of my world. I chose middle class or higher class clients who would open me up to another world. Thanks to that world, I started reading and listening to music, and in that environment, I discovered the opera and the literature of the world. I realized that many people dream of climbing the ladder of fortune or class, in the hope that it will make them happy, but happiness is not that. My clients had all the honors, all the celebrated positions among the people, but they weren't happy, they lacked something. This helped me blur my origin of farmers, of land and of homeless people. My parents didn't have land, they didn't have a house, the kitchen was mud, the toilets, four tables outside... I got out of there. It is known that in the world there may be many different people, but when in the world that shows you there are only one class of people, you do not have a thousand paths: adapt or escape. At one point, I had a discomfort in the Basque Country, a discomfort to overcome in the name of personal mental health. You do not leave, I do not know what believing you will find. No, it's going and it's enough.

Your reality has little to do with the bucolic Zuberoa of the songs of Benito Lertxundi. Like the Xora movies, in the background.

In Hegoalde they do not want to admit that Zuberoa is not only green, but also dark, that the Basque is being lost, that it is not sung as much as they believe, that the shepherds are almost a cultural fraud, that more than half of those who participate in it care little about Euskal Herria and the Basque... It is difficult for them to hear it and accept everything outside the klieks. When they see Xora, they ask us, "Is that Zuberoa?" We've said it because we're from there, because we hear several times a year that a 20-year-old has died or committed suicide in an accident, because we see young people, especially boys, getting drunk every weekend, forget, blow up the cocotte minute lid. There's a desire for life, people don't want to leave there, but it's so hard to find a place in society that's so united. I do not believe that Zuberoa's problem is the economy. The main problem is another: how a person as a whole, with all its nuances, can be admitted into such a united and blocked society. In Zuberoa, if you're not playing rugby, if you're not a hunter, and you're not following the line of a particular tradition, you're lonely, you're alone.

I do not know how to idealise the other four provinces which are not in Lapurdi, Baja Navarra and Zuberoa. You live in Oiartzun.

For us, for a generation of Iparralde, the South was a model of permanence as Basques. We were feeding on her, on her fantasy. When I arrived at Oiartzun, this seemed to me to be “Little North-America.” I was surprised to see how consumerist people were. We put on an old yogging and a perforated t-shirt to go running, to walk on the mountain or the bike. But here no, there are clothing to walk the red road, another to go to the mountain, another to ski... People are very consumerist and I am surprised that this consumerist world stands on the left Abertzale. What I live is the world of the Abertzale left, but the bourgeois. On the other hand, despite the fact that the Basques are in this sense in general, it made me a flash of how people want to feel Euskaldun but not necessarily speak in Basque. In addition, it has happened to me to go dressed up to carnivals and see people without costumes on the side of the road taking pictures of costumes. Those people talk about our old customs, but they don't live them. It needs brackets that are outside of them to feed that Basque feeling, but it has not lived. When I see dances here, etc., everything is very artificial, the subject of children. Boys and girls dress in folkloric costumes for their parents to take pictures, but then dance in the village square, with the pleasure of living the culture, they don't go through their heads. Football does, but there is no other popular cultural expression here. We prefer to resist nostalgia to believe that we are still in it.

You have criticised the pastoralists who consider it almost a cultural fraud, but you are also the author of the Belagileak pastoral ministry, which was issued in 2009.

The form of pastoral care is very complicated and restrictive. This way, as it did with the heroes of French history or with the devout characters, has inclined the Basque subjects towards the good and evil binomials, Christians and Turks, and all the Basques have always been shown to be good. This makes me uncomfortable. Anyone is not good or bad and it's over. Moreover, when they say that they learn a story that is not taught in schools through pastoralists, it is not true. For example, in the pastoral ministry we have been taught that Antxo was of good heart, generous, intelligent, that he knew to accompany Christians and Jews, that he opened the roads to Compostela... But at Gartxot you see clearly what the Antxotarrak were. They just moved to manage the interests of the family. With Monzón. In the pastoral Monzón it seems ideal, but we all know that Monzón was a bourgeois. When I listen to their songs, maybe because they were in a while, I give them a touch of fachas. So, of course, let us talk about the Basque subjects, the Basque people, but not so. Besides, for me, pastoral care is not a course of history. For me, the key is to pick a character, to investigate what was at stake about it, and how that character moved in that game. The character is an excuse to refer to a broader context. That's complicated. How to prove that a subject, a hero, black and white, muddy and brown, is from everywhere.

You have not chosen by chance the pastoral care on witch hunting that allowed the outstanding presence of a woman.

I don't know myself in devout models. I do not find myself in those reactionary, violent, right-wing and malignant attitudes that the Church has today, without empathy. And even less so, in a warrior and a male. Those models are my enemies. I'm convinced that, as long as you don't understand, within them is a model of femininity and masculinity, and that you have to maintain your own balance between the two, that all the revolutions of the world are going to be the same. Whenever we are in the model of men, prioritizing force, competition, comparison and lists from 1 to 10, all revolutions will fail. I realize how we've internalized a lot of things, even if we're fighting against it. Men look at women as objects, but we do not dare to look at a man with empathy, in the hope that the taboo of homosexuality will be generated. As long as there's nothing nice about us, except rabies, we feed it. When we hear the words of the sports broadcasts, “they have attacked”, “we have to be aggressive”, “we have not hurt them”... Ostia! Where are we? What do we do? 30,000 people are going to see it, and then we want a revolution to change the world? There's a mistake. It's impossible to change the world without changing those models.

That is why you have never voted?

Thanks to the work of the radio, I've seen the politicians, both on the left and on the right, touching their shoulders and moving forward. Everyone will tell you that you have your ideas, your values and your social perspectives, that your job is to make those social visions, but then, tururu! Basically, the General Council has: It is all about managing those four salaries and four salaries. We're led to believe that they're working for our benefit, but no, they just do the management: the petita here, the concentration there, the inauguration ... They don't work on people's real needs. They just delude us and make us roundabouts. They think that we are too stupid to understand the nuances, they keep us in that dream, and the attitude we have towards politicians is terrible. We see them as heroes. When Stork Lasalle appears to the pastoral ministry, the long one, we all start “there it is...” looking at each other. What a submission to us! We have them famous, they are nothing, we give them what they are. We delegate to those people our power, as we delegate to school our children's education, and so we don't regret our facts. They are corrupt, they work badly. It's always the fault of others. The others are yes, but we what? Where do we stand? I do not consider myself to be a political activist, I prefer to place myself in more cultural areas and influence it.

In this cultural sphere, the word is the main work tool. How do you experience your disappointment, your devaluation?

It hurt. It's to enjoy a language. We have to continually reinvent ourselves, reinvent ourselves, and unfortunately it is very difficult to do so today in the Basque Country. School is the most important tool for Euskaldunizarre and, unfortunately, for a child, school is the most boring thing in the world. When you leave there, on the street, you find oxygen with Castilian. If the language is to live, some indifferent subjects will have to be removed from school, replacing them with slang, bad words and disrespectful games. If the Basque needs that, let us look for the pornographers, the anarchists and all those who are not, so that children can learn and enjoy their language. There is a freedom in relation to language, one’s own and that which others accept, but unfortunately this Basque Country is very good, and that takes away the freedom to create, even in the field of words. We are too attached to a situation of danger, obsessed with speaking perfectly. But no, let the language follow its path, let us enjoy it freely. Yes, you have to break the limits to enjoy, break a frankness, break down taboos... Bans are being broken and the Basque country in its social sphere has to shake, dump, break and enjoy these bans.