Arritxu Santamaria, by Eusko Ekintza, and Nekane Garmendia have argued that "it is not in the hands of thinkers and entrepreneurs, but of economic policies". The political and economic crisis in the Spanish State is total, and bipartisanship has also collapsed. If the transition of 1977 had been carried out since the truth, justice and reparation, the democratic system of the Spanish State would not be rooted today in the values of Franco.

They claim the political transition and the need to create subjective conditions and develop politics as a social act.

Eusko Ekintza has been presented as a meeting point between the different sensibilities of the Abertzale left. Asked about its affinity with EAE-ANV, the answer is: “ANV is out of the law. In Eusko Ekintza there are people from ANV and EA, also libertarians, communists and from the Sovereign Left.”

Why this new aspect? Why did you create Eusko Ekintza?

Nekane Garmendia: We started meeting when the Abertzale left was in full crisis, two or three years ago. We formulate new approaches for the future. We are people of different lines and ideologies, militant work in the past, we all know each other. So, we made a diagnosis of the current political situation.

Arritxu Santamaria: According to this diagnosis, both socialdemocracy and liberalism do not contribute anything to the promotion of the new society we want. Socialdemocracy is drowned by corruption, and neoliberalism as well. We must build a system that goes beyond the current political, economic and social situation, and to this end these social models do not serve. At the same time, Euskal Herria is under great pressure. The illegalizations have left the entire Abertzale left upside down. Therefore, we propose another correlation of forces between the different sectors on the left to overcome this situation.

Garmendia: At the starting point of Eusko Ekintza there is a will to meet, but we have only just begun. The unity of the citizenship of the left is our first objective.

You are basically a political party. What will be the structure of the Basque Action?

Santamaría: We have created a party, but with a vocation: with a bottom-up approach of organizing citizenship, based on real or radical democracy, in a word: participatory. We see that democracy is weak, so we also want to change the way the party is built. We don't want the figure of the shiny beaded character, so we're here two members. Our intention is to carry out collective work by promoting citizen initiatives.

But how?

Garmendia: To begin with, in our organization it is essential to take the regions as the main model. This is how we begin structuring from the natural regions. We are ahead of the Goierri or Urola de Gipuzkoa. The Party has three figures: activists, members and amateurs. Then everyone will see how they commit themselves to themselves. In the Diaspora we have seen that the project may interest people. For two months, through the regional conferences, we have set up a coordinating group at the national level. We are already working in Álava and Bizkaia. At Iparralde, for the time being, the activity has developed in Lapurdi.

A moment ago they talked about the crisis. Among them is the crisis of the Abertzale left.

Santamaría: The political system is in crisis and nationalism is also. Repression has had a great deal of influence on the Abertzale left, the political debate has been largely abandoned, it has created great indifference, it has left us a moment without a way of organizing ourselves. It is a great vacuum and there is a duty. Political utopias must be re-established so that the left can mark new directions.

Why are you not in Sortu?

Santamaría: First, because our right is to create a political party.

Garmendia: On the other hand, because the Abertzale left has historically been organized into a citizen unit, not a single party. In the Abertzale Left we are not all in the same field, especially in the way we organize ourselves we have differences. The Abertzale left cannot be articulated in a single party. They were HB or EH, they've always been the parties and the popular movement with them. Sortu is not a popular unit, it is a party.

And so does Eusko Ekintza.

Garmendia: Our party, if they let us function as a party, will not be hegemonic. We are independent and of all trends. We're different from Sortu.

Santamaría: In any case, the Abertzale left is our natural framework, in which there are projects. We were born with the intention of complementing other projects, but outside hegemonism. We do not see the Abertzale left being a single party. We have differences in the diagnosis of the situation, we do not see that we are in a new time. The end of ETA has meant a new situation for the Abertzale left and for the future of the political lines that will emerge. The area must be promoted through the accumulation of forces and the anti-capitalist left-wing policy.

Are the other guidelines of the Abertzale left not in this sense?

Santamaría: In the papers I have read, although anti-capitalist is mentioned, it remains semi-literary. Anti-capitalism requires the development of the whole political line, and that is not clearly seen. The anti-capitalist trend must be encouraged, and in order to achieve this we have, for example, raised civil disobedience.

Arnaldo Otegi, “we have to add civil disobedience to our current struggles,” he told us in Argia, from the jail in Logroño.

Santamaría: In Sortu's presentations there is this option, but it needs more concreteness. Obviously, we agree on many things, but for us civil disobedience should not be an aesthetic attitude. It is not likely for them too, but it needs to be clearly explained. Unilaterality, for example, should be more defined, serve to establish relationships of strength and be willing to face. The change of regime in the Spanish State is not going to come by itself, but by the hard struggle.

Where is the key to the struggle?

Santamaría: The key is the organization of the citizen’s movement, and to this end the political relationship of the leftist forces must be worked out. In order to achieve the objectives of the Abertzale left, it is necessary to reverse the current relationship of forces, based on the popular movement. So far, it has only been the electoral coalitions of Bildu, Amaiur and EH Bildu that have limited themselves to voting. The grass-roots movement must therefore be represented in institutional policy.

Don't you see Eusko Ekintza represented by EH Bildu?

Garmendia: Some of us in Eusko Ekintza participate in the constitution of EH Bildu. On this tour there were great ups and downs, hard times. At EH Bildu we work with a lot of independent people, but we continue with the project and we also show up for the election. Some of those at EH Bildu didn't do much until it was created. Some of the participants we're at EH Bildu are not too comfortable. EH Bildu is not what we expected. In our experience, several currents are not easily acceptable. EH Bildu is above all an electoral initiative, they do not intend to go further, there is no militancy, they are members of the parties that make up it. We don't think most of the people who voted for EH Bildu want a coalition. However, we are in EH Bildu, that is our natural political framework.

At what point is the citizen movement? How can we promote it?

Santamaría: First of all, we must complete the empty citizen movement. Our objectives are not to take ownership of the cake of the institutions. What a piece of cake for, if then it gives us a little burning. We want to promote a movement that is the controller of institutional policy, that guarantees institutional activity, that gives strength to the policy that will be made in the institutions. Otherwise, we will remain in crisis: the crisis in the current regime has been caused by the lack of control, among other reasons, drowned by corruption. We propose a socialism that guarantees the welfare society based on the public sphere, cooperativism and communism. In the Basque Country there are positive experiences in this direction: ethical banks, initiatives for the formation of public lands. The Basque currency is born in Iparralde. Which gives money a different sense of capitalism.

The Aiete declaration is a very long one. What assessment do you make of the political process of standardisation?

Santamaría: It is time to manage ETA’s heritage. In the new history we have experienced three transitions, and now we are too. I am referring to the great Spanish transition to a completely corrupt political system. For democracy to be real, we have to make a real transition. In order to give effect to the democratic regime in the Basque Country, a legal and juridical-political architecture is needed in Spain.

But how can we do that?

Santamaría: Fostering a confrontation conducive to political transition. It is our approach, I push around and push around and the system will come down to make the system more democratic at the end of the crisis. In this case, the application of transitional justice.

Is transitional justice going to be applied without amnesty?

Santamaría: No. It shall not apply without modification of the scheme. In order not to repeat all the abuses caused by the previous system, it is necessary to give truth, justice and reparation to prisoners and victims. And furthermore, we have to have a guarantee that it will not happen again. This is something that few people mention, but it is what guarantees change in the political situation. When the basic political problems are addressed, the need for amnesty is recognized for those who have carried out the political struggle; because crimes are political, those crimes that political activity has created, those laws, those constructions, must cease.

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Amnesty indicates that our prisoners and combatants have fought for a correct political approach. The transitional justice of the Spanish State must be questioned because it has guaranteed corruption, murder, torture and repressive laws.

Jonan Fernández, director of the Department of Peace and Coexistence of the Basque Government, says that truth, justice and reparation must be applied, but that approaches such as amnesty hinder the solution.

Santamaría: But if it does, the system will continue to work. Either you guarantee political architecture so far or you try to throw it away. In the twentieth century, three amnesties have been applied in Spain. The transition in 1977 was a great deal of uproar. When the Amnesty Law was applied, there was a regime change. The key is to carry out truth, justice and reparation. In order for this to happen, however, strong positions must be taken from the left. Amnesty makes sense because we do not want it to follow the policies that the old regime has managed. That amnesty is not suitable for: For those on the left, yes.