The public has waited patiently for the ETA document. The situation affects the realization of this interview. How do you see the current political situation?

He knows he needs to clarify his position as soon as possible. The signatories of the Gernika document and the Brussels declaration asked him to do so, as ETA stated in the final document. I'm sure the document will come. We have experienced this situation before. It was supposed to be January and arrived in September. As it happened in the summer, the important thing is to come. Of course, the most important thing is the content of the document.

What kind of document do you expect?

Which will definitely bury the strategy of violence. But, realistically, the important thing is that the ongoing process is not going backwards, that is, that the path that ETA took in the September document is not going backwards. This process is different, because the one who asks ETA to stop is the patriotic left. So far he has ignored society, but I don’t think he will turn his back on the people of the Patriotic Left.

In the meantime, ETA has been accused of stealing identity documents that took place in the Paris area. How do you rate that?

Like a black spot. Let us hope that the supply that ETA has not denied has been limited to the field. Of course, we must ask ourselves what it is for when an armed organization is supplied. If it's for bombings, bad. When the ETA military has announced ceasefires it has never unanimously adopted them, so it is possible that some groups will not accept this. The future will tell.

So how can Rubalcaka assess the new ETA document?

Rubalcaba and the Government of Madrid are very aware of the importance of the steps that the nationalist left is taking. They have their own sources, they see the patriotic left concerned about the bet it has made. But in Moncloa they remember very much what happened in the T-4 of the Barajas airport. Zapatero played the fool the day before. This is not easily forgotten by a head of government.

In the meantime, Otegi says he is ready to leave ETA’s violence.

That’s what he said in September. The words of Otegi must be taken in this context. It's an important ingredient. The assertion that the process of the patriotic left is one-sided, that is, it does not demand anything in return from the other actors – the Spanish government in particular.

You speak as if we are in the process of peace or normalization. Is that how it is?

Oh, yeah, yeah. We never walk from scratch. Let’s not forget what Brian Currin said: The concern of ETA is that while its work ends, while peace is being worked on – while the problem of prisoners and victims is being solved – political normalization will be suspended. For ETA, after 50 years, receiving nothing but “legalization” in return is a drama. ETA wants at least a table between the parties that will lead to political normalization.

What does AJ say about that?

We have a route, we don’t start from scratch. There are the Lizarra-Garazi Agreement, the New Statute, the Consultation [of the late Ibarretxe], the Declaration of Loyola... The PNV will begin political normalization whether or not it is ETA, since there has been a political conflict between the Basque Country and Spain that existed before the birth of ETA itself. We tell ETA this: be careful, you are not the keeper of the party table, which will threaten to return the talks as they go. If ETA thinks that we will forget the political conflict, it is wrong to know that EAJ will not forget it.

Do you see the way the Nationalist Left is in the May elections?

If we look at the current situation, the Patriotic Left has its time: Conditioned by the ETA document and the new statute of the new party. The Nationalist Left had said that “if there is no ETA document, we will not present new statutes”, but has rejected this position. He said he wanted to be in the election. In this way, the nature of their statutes cannot be called into question as being fully democratic. The judicial authorities of the State shall have the task of legally and formally rejecting them.

They've done that so far.

Yes, but the current position of the Nationalist Left is not the same. The nationalist left is determined to oppose the action of ETA, explicitly written in the statutes of the new party. And there's another area, political...

I wanted to say that political decisions have been taken to outlaw the nationalist left. Or not at all?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Even if ETA says A or B, I mean that the Nationalist Left has every right to be in the elections. If the nationalist left does what it says, it has every right, because they will be statutes without tack. When I mention the political sphere, I have linked them to the mistrust and electoral calculation that exist in Moncloa. The PSOE is in a critical situation in the face of the May elections. Because of the economic situation the PP is working hard and Zapatero is tickling. Not only that, the presidents of the autonomous community and the mayors of many cities will exert a clear pressure on Zapatero: “We have a pretty closed door, try to open the door of peace,” they say.

It's just Basque politics.

Looking at the Basque Country, politically, curiously, Patxi López doesn’t want the patriotic left to be present, the PSOE has strong contradictions. If what is good for the Basque Country is bad for Patxi López, that means that the PSE has a big problem. The social majority is not behind it.

What do you think of the politics of the past two years?

This government started its career with a short leg and will end with a short leg. The Galician Núñez Freijo said that “the governments that are formed against the ballot boxes end up in the ballot boxes,” referring to Galicia, a phrase that is ideal to understand here. The PP completely determines the activity of the government of Patxi López.

The EESC has therefore abstained from voting on the budget of the Basque Government. Why not against it?

We presented quite a number of amendments. The government and the Minister of Economy recognized that our amendments were very well prepared. Even so, the government of Patxi López has approved only three amendments, one of them technical, with a total value of 80,000 euros. It was a provocation. However, it was in the interests of the Socialist government that we should vote against it. Sometimes provocation from the enemy should be taken as a recommendation. In addition, our position has been influenced by the competence of employment policy, which has come as a result of our initiatives. That is why we abstained.

This is also influenced by the agreement signed with the government of Madrid.

No, I don't.

You voted for the budgets there, while you abstained here.

In Madrid there have been two reasons: some competences have been obtained and we have also worked on the programme for the implementation of the remaining ones, involving investments. But the issue of the policy of peace and normalization has also been on the table. A very important point, really.

You didn't say that explicitly.

We have said it in our public statements, but there is no role. Both in the time of Aznar and with the previous governments of Zapatarero, the PNV was ready to break this path, and even now. During the last dialogue in Madrid, the issue of peace and normalization has been on the table. This point has been one of the reasons for the talks, and the nationalist left is grateful for it. Because the Patriotic Left is interested in Zapatero continuing. If Raxoi wins, and even with an absolute majority, the process may have a pause. The Nationalist Left does not say this publicly, but it is grateful for what we have agreed with the Zapateros.

What are the other competencies that you have worked on in Madrid, in the program?

In the first six months of 2011, some competences will be transferred and in the second half. The most important of these is the management of the Social Security fund.

There was a time when Ramon Jauregi said that to give it to him was to pave the way for independence.

Maybe it is. But we cannot accept such a political stance. If the Statute of Guernica is a pact, we cannot accept such a political position on a treaty agreed between the two parties. If it is a treaty, it must be complied with. Otherwise, we will guarantee what the former Minister of Justice, Fernando Ledesma, said: “The Guernica Statute went a long way,” he said. This cannot be allowed. This, among other things, confirms that we need another framework of relations between the Basque Country and Spain in the last ten years. And we're working on that so that it can be enforced with all the guarantees.

On the other hand, what would you highlight in the works of Markel Olano, Head of Government of the Provincial Council of Gipuzkoa?

Markel Olano began his term in a difficult situation. In any case, he put on the table the following three main ideas: a new political culture of collaboration, the accumulation of forces and the coping with the economic crisis. With these ideas, he has made remarkable progress.

As for the economic crisis, the finances of the Provincial Council of Gipuzkoa were in order and the level of debt has been very well controlled. The Provincial Council has promoted and promoted the potential of the business and economic sector, without forgetting social cohesion. Because it’s often said, let’s create wealth to distribute it later. No, I don't. The paradigm is another. At the moment when we are creating wealth, it must be social, not looking at the future, but looking at the moment.

In addition, the Provincial Council has reached great consensus with the economic and cultural agents of Gipuzkoa in terms of participation and new political culture. In terms of participation, it has taken steps along the lines of the Foral Rule, which means that citizens not only participate four years through elections, but it has also opened up other avenues in the last three years. The polls have given him a decent assessment of this.

Have the corruption cases in Gipuzkoa been processed? From the Foral Hacienda of Irún... among others...
Yeah, I think they've been channeled... The judicial area operates there, and politically the General Assemblies justified their political responsibilities. The most serious political situation occurred in May 2007, when Deputy Markel Olano was elected. But since then, their activity and information has been more extensive politically than it was before. People are becoming more and more acquainted with the Member General and value him well.

The government has carried out the budget with the help of H1! On the other hand, Aralar criticises the fact that they are the most anti-social budgets, as well as the EU. The PSE and PP, however, abstained.

The positions of the PSE and the PP are understandable, that is, they did not want to be left out of the playing field. PP and PSE, the peculiarities, have come to the positions of EAJ. Remember, among other things, that the PP tabled an amendment of the whole at the first moment and soon withdrew it. Then he abstained.

The criticisms of Aralar and the EU, which are left-wing parties, are legitimate. But given the budget figures and the services provided, we are supporting the social sphere. For the PNV, this field has always been a priority, in line with the philosophy mentioned at the beginning, that is, it is not possible to generate wealth in any case, if it will affect the social sphere and society as a whole.

The leftists don't see it...

And it is legitimate, I repeat, but there has been a great step forward in the social field, both in qualitative and quantitative terms. Budgets have increased by 25%.

You will only appear in the May elections, or with the H1! How do you rate H1! ? What is this phenomenon for you in Utah?

First, we're H1! We took it with respect. In any case, we sent them our opinion not only in Gipuzkoa, but also in the Basque Country. We told them that they would not facilitate relations between the parties if a political party were created. Especially since we don’t know the weight of EH1 in society. As a result, since we do not know this, it is very difficult for us to make a classic coalition. Secondly, it is very difficult for us, with a coalition on the spectre of patriotism, to give a new political party “credit”. There’s a lot of party, there’s a lot of spectrum, and we’re not optimistic about creating another political party. In other words, the existence of another political party will not consolidate the field of patriotism.

If the nationalist left participated in the next elections, let’s say together with EA on the platform, how would it affect the governance of Gipuzkoa? How would AJ take that?

To begin with, it is perfectly legitimate to do so. Analyzing the trajectory of MS, it can be considered normal to form such a platform or coalition. We believe, however, that the traditional electorate of EA has already come to us. And I'm not mistaken, we've analyzed that sociologically. We cannot take the results obtained by EA in 2007 and add them simply to the number of votes that the nationalist left can obtain.

We believe that we will win in Gipuzkoa and for us, perhaps the most important is not what the nationalist left and the EA can do, because here the PP and the PSE are the political rivals. And they will certainly do what they did in the Basque Parliament if the numbers allow them. We have to deal with this, and to deal with their strategy we see our position firmly.

Has EAJ acquired the social base of EA through H1!?

No, in person.