As an anthropologist, what do you think about anthropology? What is your identity?

I was born in Paris. My father did not receive Basque from my mother, and I grew up in French and I grew up in French culture. I have references to Basque culture from my father. Even without knowing the Basque language, my father interjected Basque words when he spoke with us. I’ve always come to see my dad and my dad’s family. I studied science, first history and then anthropology. This led me to investigate the Basque world, both in anthropology and sociology. Anthropology is a very broad science that offers multiple perspectives when it comes to addressing issues. You have to investigate the Basque case, comparatively, from a broad perspective.

In the research work “Relations with the conception and culture of the Basque world in the North at the beginning of the 21st century”, you have investigated the tendency to reveal the Basque world as a mystery.

I'm talking about Baiki. The Basque world two centuries ago appears as a strange or strange being in the research work of the social sciences. To begin with, science has revealed the origins of the Basque Country as unknown. I am interested in seeing how science has studied the Basque world – now the Nordic society – and especially how it has been instrumentalized in the last two centuries. A priori, science is in favour of Basque language, but in essence, coming to the present day, it is the other way around. In other words, those who oppose the Basque cause use Basque culture as a mystery so that Basque society is not institutionalized. They don’t have Basque culture, let alone Basque, to be recognized publicly and politically.

You have studied history and studied society from the point of view of anthropology. What would you highlight?

Names and concepts have changed from time to time. The term ethnology is no longer used in anthropology. Rather, most scientists don’t want to use the word ethnicity because it has been devalued. In France the term ethnicity is considered obsolete, at the time of the formation of the nation-states of Europe the term ethnicity was very marked. Peoples without the possibility of forming a nation-state were stigmatized and vilified, as witnessed by the Basque Country.

As a result...?

Well, the Basques appear in society and/or in the collective imagination as a closed group, or science has spread the idea of it. Taken together, this position will have serious consequences for the peoples of non-nation-States, whose character has been dehumanized. Every people has its own historical trajectory, but if a kind of amnesia spreads among its citizens, its culture is disqualified. It falls first into the course of history and finally runs out of space. This country is a-historical for science, without history.

You've also studied the idea of myth.

I use the expression “myth of Basque uniqueness”. I want to say that historically, in truth, the Basque world is a hermetic field for those outside the Basque Country. The Basque myth is still alive. This cannot be denied, nor can the idea of myth be easily dispelled. A priori, the idea could be dispelled by institutionalization. Although in the South there is this myth – I have not studied it – but in the South you can become Basque without having a place of origin or Basque origin. The lack of Basque institutions in the north limits the development of the Basque character. The Basque language has been limited to the folklore category. For example, the symbols are everywhere, but the Basque language is on its way to extinction.

The subtitle of the thesis book also says: [Usages politiques et déconstructiones des préjugés socioculturels]. (Political odors and dismantling of sociocultural prejudices).

In fact, I have tried to demonstrate the ethnologization that has taken place in the Basque Country. The culture and character of the Basque Country has been studied and/or considered for ethnological purposes only. The desire to limit culture to the ethnological field has prevented the development of Basque culture. The Basque character, presented as a simple ethnic fact, is not given a dignified place in the public and institutional sphere. The case of Euskara is seen, by comparison, as being limited by those in power.

Nation = culture. Ethnicity = culture. You say that in France the nation and the ethnicity have been homologated, you have highlighted the mixture of concepts.

The confusions that take place over Basque society in the French Basque Country – in the case of the North – are enormous, there is a great confluence in French society between the idea of the nation and the state. The idea of being French is very confusing, as a result of which this confusion runs counter to other natures or cultures that it has encompassed within it, i.e. these other peoples are limited to the ethnic category. The Basque case is known as a cultural expression, but it does not have the right to exercise a political character.

What are these controls in today’s North?

Those who are advocating for political knowledge in the North have been strongly rejected and, for example, the concept of ethnicity has become even more marked after the wars in the Balkans. To those who oppose knowledge, what happened in the former Yugoslavia has been useful in instrumentalizing the political situation here. Although the two historical and social situations cannot be compared, since they are very different, the majority of those in the institutions have used the conflicts in the Balkans to oppose the demands of the Basque department or the official Basque language.

The request for the
Pays Basque Department or the Basque Department itself is a control.

This is a very visible control. The term Pays Basque is known, and you have to say Pays Basque Department, but the term Basque Department disturbs the spirit of those who oppose it. The Basque term has a connotation of its own. The Basque language is only lived by one part of the population, while the other, the majority, considers the Basque language as an “offense” or an “outrage”. It's a terrible chaos in people's imaginations. The French, in the so-called Republican France, think that any sign of the nation is allayed.

Like Le Cercle Lissagaray. Espilondo politicians, Daguerre journalists, among others.

Oh, yeah, yeah. For them, they do not reject the Basque identity, but they do not want the institutionalization of the Basques, they do not accept any other department at all. The people of Le Cercle Lissagaray claim to be true Republicans and do not give the slightest opportunity to change the current status quo. They are more promoters of republicanism than supporters of republicanism, this way of being republican is, in my humble opinion, the way of being nationalist.

On the other hand, you distinguish between “the right to discern” and “the right to equality.”

The term equality is somewhat valid in socio-economic matters, but not in cultural matters. The right to be different is evidenced by the existence of schools, but it would be a right to equality if the means were established to make children in school bilingual. But most people don’t think about it.

There are, however, attachments to the teaching of Basque.

Oh, yeah, yeah. The subject is not easily judged, i.e. the subject is sociologically very hurtful. To begin with, the subject is complex, difficult and complicated in the conscience of many Basque originals. In addition, some sectors live very comfortably, they do not want complications with the Basque language. Others often welcome the bilingual system. They do not own the Basque identity, but their adherence to the Basque language is something different. There are those who come from outside and have less complex to connect to the Basque language than here. Those who have not lost their language have a Basque conscience, in some cases both culturally and politically, and in others only culturally.

How do you see the term nationalism among nationalists?

Many patriots in the North do not share the idea of nation, because patriotism has been built against the influence of the nation-state. The concept of nation can be surpassed, it can be understood in different forms. An example of this is that Spanish nationalism is different from French nationalism, or that it has been built in different ways. The idea of a nation-state in development in the Basque Country generally resembles some of the ideas of the French thinker Ernest Renan, with the so-called régalien states. So far, it is a phenomenon that has developed in the South in some way over the last 30 years. Unable to form a nation-state, this country is searching for other ideas and ways of the nation.