You're a stubborn Basque, even though, in Ttipita, you didn't speak Basque...

I didn't know that at all. My father didn’t know either. Well, then I found out that a cousin of my father said that his father and mother knew it. They said they knew it by hand, but they were always talking about gascon, it was the gascon that dominated here. There was a time when he spoke Gascon! He also entered a bit of San Sebastian.

Music, dance, politics, Basque, choreography... You have worked in numerous areas.

Lots of hats!

I'd say so!

I'm also a teacher! I still have six students, they're studying at hand with me. Maluruski, lots of hats. It was necessary to specialize, take a department and learn from the root. Neither music nor dance have I ever studied radically. It’s hard to get into things, but it’s not good. If I knew music and harmonization better, what a difference!

I've been to salsa aunts...

Yes, and on the radio. I've worked a lot. It’s good to know a bit about everything on the radio, but not on the music.

You have the regret that you did not originate in the Basque land.

Since my father worked in Indochina, my sister was born there. He doesn't want to say fits, I know. But my father came from there, recently married, with my daughter; I had not yet conceived. So, my father enters the Village of Mandala and stays here for a while, before he goes to America. He told me that I was a counsellor in Biarritz. And conception in Hendaye. My father had siblings in Hendaye, but they were jealous because our mother was an artist. And my mother and my father's family did not get along, so my parents escaped from Hendaye. Otherwise, I said, the Council of Biarritz and I would have been born in Hendaye. Instead, I was born in Argeles-Gazost, a small town, in Biarno! But I have blood from both my mother and father, from both I have blood, from the region, and from the gascon.

Is blood important?

The hand is the most important thing, the hand. And many other things that go with the hand. But the blood... the environment is important.

In 1937 you saw the Eresoinka Vision. He does matter...

Oh, yeah, yeah! It was important. I was not a patriot then. My father found out that Eresoinka was in Paris. It was December 1937. Eresoinka started in Sara and later in Paris. I saw them and admired them a lot. More than a choral dance. Back then I wasn’t overly skilled in music, I just loved it.

Did Eresoinka make you look at the Basque world?

That wasn't enough. My father didn't know it at hand, but let's pretend he was a local, not a patriot. So there were no patriots here, but my father was always talking about “basque, basque...” He knew a few words and gave them. My mother also knew that in her family there were people of the Acorn lineage who had the right to ride in the churches of Navarre. There was something in the atmosphere. Since the beginning, I was an internationalist, because I have been transferred to Montevideo in three months... But one thing has been important: my father and mother have divorced and, then, in peace, what to do with their children? She and her sister, to Hendaye, her aunt's house, during the summers of 1935 to 39. I was a fascist, a Francoite. My father, the bourgeois, was right-handed. Me, right side. But the refugees began to arrive in Hendaye, and seeing that, comparatively, the refugees coming from Hondarribia were very regionalised – more so than those from Hendaye – I learned.

In those who passed from Hondarribia to Hendaye, a name...

Yes, a little boy, Felix – a boy from Hondarribia, who may still live, I don’t know at all – in 1937-38, and I went to him: “You are Spanish!”, he: “No, I’m American, just like you.” At the age of seven! I didn't tell him I was from the region. She must have noticed! I was very proud of the name of the jungle. It is then that the desire to learn of the hand begins, and then patriotism.

That's your way...

As a great French patriot, I began in military school, as the war against the Germans began. They were sent from the north of France to the south, to Bayonne, to Pau, and to other places, where the war had begun. I wanted to be a French soldier. I was transferred to the military school in Bayonne. We came from Paris and Eastern France. When we were in school, three of us set “Viva Euskadi Askatu!” on the little hats we wore in our heads. On the 39th! We switched to Fite. Those who had completed a year of preparation had the right to write down what they wanted in their hats. We, the new ones, didn't have that derecha, but we took it. There were three of us, the three of us from Miarritz, a town that is very Gascon. Do you see how many things have gone by in a little time? And I've changed.

When did you start learning English?

You have an interesting question. In the so-called Hendayan peace, in the little ones... Not in the little ones, though! I was 15 years old in 1936. I was changing a little bit in 1937. Then the desire to learn at hand begins. My aunts and uncles knew more about the hand in Hendaye than my father. They had a maid from Hondarribia, Koxepa, to whom: “How can you say such a thing?” So, in the pacifications.

That's not enough...

It's not usually enough. I found a book that was very well written. Gramática Vasca, first volume. The beginnings of the hand are very important. However, even a book is not enough. When I was in Paris, I needed to save my health first – the doctors told me that I had rheumatism in my joints – and to learn by hand. Finally, in 44, leaving Paris and having to learn at hand, I settled, yes, in Larresoro, then in Ezpeleta, and then in Aldud. And don't learn! You know what? You learn many things with books and songs, but then, to understand the people... I returned to Biarritz – where the Germans were – to occupy Olaeta with ballets. “Philip, you won’t learn by hand all your life,” I said. But in Oldarran there was a boy from Zarautz, the Basterretxea, who had been banished: he lived alone and did not know the French. “Come, Basterretxea, come to my house, you will sleep there.” And with him, everything I knew came to me. And then Monzon. I practiced with him. That's how I learned, from everything, books, songs, Monzón... In Oldarra, then, quite fite, we had Likinian. His hand, the hand of Mondragón, was incomprehensible!, but we were talking about the hand. There was another one on the other side, Zapirain, from San Sebastian.

You became religious and patriotic.

Yes, and the Urreztians from Biarritz, the Sothas, the Vilallongas, the Barkos Landazabal... I met Monzón afterwards. And the Mixel d’Arcangues! He had a father not for Franco, but for the king of Spain. And his son, Mixel, became patriotic: he learned to whistle, even to the hand... One day, in a café in Bayonne, Miguel Saseta –Kandido’s brother–, and d’Arcangues, very chic, you know, elegant, with hand!

Do we have to look
chic and elegant to be considerate of ourselves, to be considerate of others?

I've always been like this! Ha, ha, ha... I think we have to have everything. In the Basque Country we have bishops and whores of everything. It's the truth. I see the young men of today, with their long hair... even in Monzo, like me, always elegant!

You knew Monzon.

Very well indeed. I was Assistant Secretary of Basque Studies when Manu Sota was Secretary General. President, José Miguel Barandiarán. We were already here. The seventh or eighth Congress of Basque Studies took place here. Manu Sota, Monzon and the three of us were always together. Erdaraz, for Manu. I knew how to speak, but I didn't speak. You can't do it! With Monzón, yes, always intervening...

You were in Paris during World War II. The rough times.

It's obvious, isn't it? I say to you: I went to Paris in '41 to pick up the job. It was hard enough. I was brought up. Then I went back to Biarritz. I've recovered. Then I joined the Olaeta team. In 1942, the Germans began making the Atlantic Wall. I was called and presented: “You have to come in tomorrow morning to work for us!” I wasn’t into politics. I was starting to patriot. I had neglected the French, the English... it was not my business. But when the Germans told me this, I hid myself. I thought about living in Larresoro, with two friends from the other side, on a farm on a hillside in Larresoro... That was crazy, however, because the Basque Country is small, and soon I would have been accused! So I went to Paris to hide better. There, first, we were starving. Then, my friend, the girl, was a Russian Jew, rich, but Jewish. They had an aunt deported, killed in the camp, but they didn't have the bad... The people are exhausted, but in the beginning the Germans were not saved enough, they did not show that they were saved and evil... After the events in Russia, they have become evil. 1943-44 was a tough year in Paris. I was dragged twice and freed twice. Surely these cops were on De Gaulle's side. Oh, my God. Ugh!

In 1944 you returned to Biarritz, the ballet Olaeta was underway, in which you participated...

I don't know if people know. One day, Segundo Olaeta was summoned by the Spanish consul in Bayonne, who claimed to spread separatist ideas through the ballet. Olaeta panicked and soon returned to Bilbao.

That's when you took over the team. You even changed his name: The Avenger, by Piarres Laffit.

Yes, in such a whisper. Laffit proposed multiple words to me. In them, the impulse, the evil, the physical or the moral...

In 1953 the division came in the Oldarra group. In the image of some, you were sober patriots, separatists... They said you needed to sing and dance, forgetting others...

I think that was before, in ’49, or ’50... The carpentry was then our president. He was only thinking of a very good man, but Biarritz and tourism. On the one hand, and me on the other. The neighborhood at the time was in favor of Guy Petit Franco. They left us to help with the tourism, but there were already stickers with the symbol. They don't, we do.

You left the Oldar and created Etori.

Some say I’m always changing, but with Olaeta a year, and with Oldarra I made eight. It's not a minute. Then create Etori, and thirty years. So I'm not so fond of changing. In addition, the choir of Oihanburu, and the choir of Etorburu now...

At least you've worked...

But I'm not overjoyed. As I said before, I needed to specialize, take an apartment and learn more about it. Radio, politics, wives, Etori... Too much! Well, it's interesting, but you don't get rich, and as you get older, a little money is good, and you don't dominate your department. But I apologize to myself. I'm sorry I didn't specialize. If I had been on the radio, I would have become someone. I always thought of Immigrant, and the radio gave me life. I'm not happy.

So you'd prefer if you'd only taken one path...

Not even that! Not a single path, but I was better off taking fewer paths.

You were a Marxist, then a Bakunin fan.

As a son of a bourgeois, I was a rightist. Then the Basque thing happened. You start thinking about what happened in Guernica. What has happened with the arrival of the Germans, my friend, the Jew... You begin to understand that the world is not well made. On the other hand, we started in Paris with Immigri and a great success. High, the troop wasn't perfect. “Not perfect!” as they say in Zubero. But the beautiful mouth of Nekane Lasarte, the Polentzi Gezala... a great success, no money. What is that world? Then I started to rebel against capitalism. I've been in the Communist Party for ten years. One day, I learned a few things: The history of Prague and! I was in Italy then. I read there: “Russian tanks have entered Prague!” No such foolish thing had to be done! Then I began to change, and I wrote the book, against the Communists: It could be revoked in Bakunin by hand. And I don't deny that book.

To communism goodbye – but “immense” – goodbye – but “welcome” – to anarchism...

Communism... shit! It could be better, but it’s not. I am against capitalism. Capitalism has not organized the affairs of the world. We need something new, anarchism, self-management, or I don’t know what we can call it, but we need to think of another world, and we don’t have enough thinkers! People today don’t think they can do something new instead of capitalism. They don't think...

In France there are thinkers...

There are, yes. Julliard and... He's a Jesuit, very supportive of us. He understands, as I do, that this world is a catastrophe. More and more people think that.

And then what do the dances, the songs... have to do in our world?

That's a good question! Bring the joy. Singing well, something from Father Donostia or Guridi, or Xabi Busto –musician from Hondarribia– is not easy, but if you sing well, you give yourself joy, joy, and even the people who are listening! How many times, at the end of our concert, people came to me: “Thank you, thank you!” It looked like they had two of them. It's the fact that we've been to Getari's church, and among the listeners, some wives are crying. Oh, that's beautiful. Beauty, what you say art...

Ha, ha, ha...

In that, I'm like Sabin Arana, a little neologist. “Art!” That’s it too! There are the “art of both”, the “art of the rock”, the “art of the rock”... At any moment you have to make a little effort. “Basque art”? The Basque beauty! Pick up a word, but make a little effort... Well, beauty brings something: good and beautiful.