When did you join the CCP and why?

I met in 2016. The reason was, above all, the attitude of the member cadres, their way of being in society. But what influenced me the most was to get closer to women's organization, which drew me away.

What has been your trajectory in these years?

I went to the organization in Rojava. There I trained and went straight to the mountains. After many formations and formations on the mountain I returned to Rojava, where I was given the responsibility of working with the Arab people. I was working for over a year in Manbij, an Arab city in the northwest of Syria, across from Euphrates.

After doing different jobs in society, I started on the education committee. There, we organized training for the people of the organization and for the others. I was in Rojava when in 2019 there was the invasion of Giro Spi and Serecanie. Then I spent another year in the mountains with the guerrillas, and now I'm working in Bashurri, in South Kurdistan, in Iraq.

What's the hardest thing to be a painting?

For starters, it's complicated to decide if it's a painting, and the path to follow by a painting is complicated in itself. But as a revolutionary, we can't say it's hard, but we have to, excuses don't work. In Kurdistan, if it were not for this struggle, it would not be possible for the Rojava revolution, for the Kurds to speak our language, for them to receive the school in a curved way, for them to be building the Democratic Confederalism and the democratic nation in Rojava… it is difficult, but it has to be done and it makes sense.

In short, the work we do is build people. We fight a 5,000 year old mentality, the patriarchal mentality, the oppressors' mentality. And that's really hard because it has a lot of weight and a lot of history. It's deep, it's not easy to turn it around. But we want to do it because we want people, because we want our people and we want freedom. Even if it's difficult, we never think it's impossible. We never say “you can’t walk on that mountain”: gradually we are walking.

How has your mindset changed from being a painting?

I have undergone major changes in recent years. But if you're a painting, you can't say you've finished it, it's an endless path. It would be the end if people were absolutely free from the influence of the system, and that hardly anyone can say.

In my case, I met at the age of 16. You might think he was a child, but Kurdish families live a lot, it's not the same to be 16 here as elsewhere in the world. I had seen a lot, especially intrafamilial pressure: the pressure exerted by my father on my mother and my children, the brothers on my brothers and the mother on my children. I was very influenced by family Islamism and the individualism of society.

I was a very quiet person, I couldn't speak in the audience; now I can speak calmly to women and men, I have no problem saying what I think. The CCP tables are not perfect, for that are the methods of criticism and self-criticism. The aim of these instruments is to deepen the fight against oneself and overcome problems. That is the only way to achieve free thinking, which in the end can develop free personality. That must be the result of our work.

 

You've been in the mountains, in the guerrillas. What is your communal life like?

It's hard to explain our feelings on the mountain. The mountain becomes our mother, it shows us everything. When I walked the clothes I was stuck in a tree, I was teaching the mountain how I had to walk.

Life changes a lot there, you feel it differently. People in cities, even if they don't recognize it, often don't want to live. They're alive, but they don't want life. On the mountain, on the contrary, you learn to love, to build feelings. I was a very individualistic, very closed person, I met a lot of people on the mountain, and I developed, I was able to love a lot of people. It is not only about a relationship with a person, but about being able to develop loving relationships with free people, outside the traditional understanding of love, whether they are women or men.

I received a lot of criticism at the beginning, because I didn't join community life, I was a lot alone, but I managed to overcome it. Looking at older members, I learned a lot: how they create relationships, how they want to understand each other's opinion, always asking and discussing. And the fact that I was mostly among the female partners and the relationships that were built there encouraged me to change more. Joining the game is like re-birth. You take a new name and start writing a new life, but in this case not for your family, not for the system, but for you.

Many speak of “re-birth”, of breaking with your previous life. What are your criticisms of your previous life?

I could criticise everything. I met at the age of 16, but I'd like it to come together earlier, because it would have less impact from the system, it wouldn't be so polluted.

I was very influenced, for example, by my mother's personality. My father touched my mother and my siblings, and so he suffered a lot. I always told my mother that I didn't want her life: I was always silent, maybe she would ever leave, but I would always go home for the kids. . That concern led me to look, how to have another life, how to become a strong woman. At the time I knew nothing else, but when I met the party I learned that this was the life I always wanted, the life of the organization, the life of PKK.

I've grown up mostly in cities, the development of cities is based on individualism, kills communal life.

The paintings give everything for revolution. Do you have any doubts?

That's important, these are questions that we have to ask ourselves. You can sometimes have contradictions, but it's different to have doubts or contradictions. All people have a good side and a bad side, which are in dialogue with each other. In this respect, you may have doubts as to what it will be like in the future, what it will contribute to the struggle.

But I can't have any doubts about the party. Because we understand that the organization does everything for the people and the revolution, does nothing to take advantage of itself, there is no one to take the personal benefit of the organization. The clearest example is the people in the mountains of Qandile. They have brought the organization to life without compensation (no pay, no car, no home...). That is what the Abertzale people create, that these people give everything for the people without receiving anything.

The CCP is clean water, if you look at it from the top, you see it clear to the bottom. A white yogurt, if something black falls inside you see it quickly. The more we trust that the party will achieve its goals, the less hesitation you will have.

You've been familiar with the Rojava revolution. What are the difficulties encountered when controlling the territory?

It can be said that a democratic nation has been built in Rojava. It's the first time that the country has leadership, it's the first time that the curvature is used in schools, in universities -- it's totally new. But it cannot be said that the work of the revolution is over. The authoritarian mindset still exists. The Kurdish people have always lived under their rule and are still in Rojava. It is true that in the system of democratic autonomy the people play a leading role, but the cadres are still necessary to continue to educate and strengthen the revolution of mentalities.

This is clearer in the Arab areas, where the CPC has not acted so much so far. Despite the progress, the Arab people are closely linked to authoritarianism and domination, and that is noted in the mentality. The existence of the co-presidency system is now problematic, but progress is being made. We must always have a woman in the leading position of society, something very new in this Arab society.

We make the revolution of mentalities, we put the means for it. There are toilets to organize the people, we are working to achieve an equitable distribution of work, both between men and women and between different social levels. Money continues to exist, the culture of wage work is very well placed, but its members are working to turn it around, to promote solidarity and exchange. Mindset change is a slow process, it requires a lot of education. The party cannot go five steps further than the people.

 

How do women’s liberation process work in Rojava? What was the starting point and what have you been able to develop?

Although in each place it can have different manifestations, the problem of women is the same throughout the world, in Rojava, in the Middle East or in the West. Women's slavery is at the base and it's not worth framing the problem. Abdullah Ocalan [leader of the CPC] states that only the freedom of society can be achieved through the liberation of women. If a revolution is not liberating for women, it will not liberate society. That's why the Rojava revolution is the women's revolution and the PKK women's party.

Of course, it cannot be said that women are absolutely free in Rojava, they continue to suffer oppression. Slavery came from a more serious situation, but now the women's movement is institutionalized, from women's homes to Kongra Star. Hundreds of organizations work on women's problems, organize training, mediate family problems, etc. On a practical level, the results can be seen, with women organizing activities and joining the movement. In Rojava, it can be seen how the natural authority of women reappeared, the one they had in the Neolithic era.

However, this female revolution also has a negative side. There are women who do the wrong reading, who understand that freedom is going with many men and doing things that they do, things that are not ethical. How men do it, you do it too. This is because they acquire the freedom of women in a liberal way.

What is your dream for Rojava?

It's not my personal dreams, it's the goals of the organization, not just for Rojava, but for the whole world. The objective is to build a democratic society that does not require the role of the cadre. That society should organize itself and meet its needs, that the country should be the vanguard. Now the figure of the box is necessary, but that is the direction we take.

What criticism would you make of European society and mentality?

First of all, there is a great revolutionary history in the West, of which many revolutionaries have emerged. In answer to the question, I see two main problems. The first is liberalism. Liberalism weakens society, submerges and diminishes social ties, until it kills society. The other problem is the understanding of freedom. In the Middle East everyone wants to go to Europe, although it is very difficult. We see that their freedom is to wear short clothing, party and leave home at the age of 18. These are very superficial things, they have nothing really to do with freedom.

The Middle East tends to be despised, but in this area the community has been defended. Not everything is good, but we have maintained more communal, unthinkable forms of life in the West.

What should someone read this conversation in Europe, or who knows the Kurdish movement, do?

I do not know the local context, so I will give a general answer. To understand the concept of freedom, it is necessary to think about what we have come to the world. Let's see if we really want to live as we've been marked, or if we want to leave a mark on the world. Ocalan says that in order to leave the mark and become part of the story, you have to fight yourself to be able to change. You can't live without asking, what do we want? What do I do for me? What do I do for this people? Who am I? Where am I going?

Today, there are a lot of people in the world who have not come up with any of that, who live without goals. But only when we reflect and answer these questions can we create a context to end the system.