The conference emphasized that the transmission of culture generates cultural habits and relationship models. In short, it helps to create a common identity, a community. What does culture give us as an individual and as a people?

I want to make it clear that when I talk about culture, I'm going to talk about creative culture, because culture has been used in many ways. The culture of creativity includes literature, music, dance, theatre and other cultural areas related to art. These cultural paths always build a communication framework and also build some reference networks. Through these networks, it is possible for a group of people to have concrete references to look at the world. After all, they are a kind of code to be in the world and to look at the world and therefore form a group. Along with that, culture provides us with resources to position ourselves as people in the world: to communicate the resources when we face each other, to build common sense, to feed the inner world, to foster exchange, to play with creativity ...

Culture makes a representation of the world, and in general, it is said that culture uses three ways to talk about the world, or about our daily lives, about us. One is to do a certain X-ray of reality and, therefore, make it visible, what happens but in daily speed it can become invisible. So it doesn't want to transform reality, it wants to make an aspect of reality visible. Another way is to make a daily critique; in this case, the goal is not only to make it visible, but it already has an interpretation, a criticism to awaken people. And it has a third, very important path: the one of imagination. Creativity creates possible worlds, and to that extent we can think of possible ways of relating within ourselves, which are neither ours nor ours, which are possible ways of building society...

So, as a person as a community, it gives us opportunities not only to calmly look at our daily lives and read them critically, but also to imagine the possible options for the future. But today, that vision of creativity and culture has been largely abandoned, and not just in our own. In elementary school, I had much more space, because it was understood that somehow culture fed a person, gave him resources to survive. But today it is very marginal, there are other priorities; culture does not generate beneficence from a productive economic point of view, and then it is marginalized. And I believe that culture is precisely one of the main centres of transformation in society. Therefore, cultural creativity is important, as it builds networks of reference and communication to build communities.

What has been the transmission of Basque culture? What are its characteristics?

The transmission of Euskera and Basque culture is characterised by its interruptions, which have also been quite cyclical. That is what conditioned the transmission, because until the end of Franco there has not been a permanent institution or a sustainable school model. It is true that great work has been done, but voluntarily, in the spaces created since the popular construction.

On the other hand, different types of interruptions have been made. For example, in my family there was a gap: by the way of my grandmother, we should receive Euskera, but in the context of Franco lost and our parents are not Basque, and we, the three sisters, became Euskaldunes at the ikastola. At that time, in the late 1970s, there was a lot of awareness in this recovery work, Basque culture was also emerging, and we with the Basque Country received an impressive cultural framework. At ikastola we not only received the language, we also received a whole cultural space. At that time the school fulfilled this function, but today, as there is model D and there is branch in Euskera, except for exceptions, it seems to me that somehow we have conformed to Euskaldunization, and that we have understood that Euskaldunization is the knowledge of the language. And I'm clear that I didn't just get Euskaldunice through language, but I also got Euskaldunice because I had also been fond of culture, because I had been approached by Basque culture in the ikastola. I know that my ability to speak wouldn't be the same if I hadn't liked culture, because we live in a certain socio-linguistic context. I could not dream of Basque until very late, until I was 21, when I was already studying Basque philology. I could speak in Basque, but until I completely immersed myself in the culture I was not able to reach 100% of Euskaldunes, nor to dream in Basque. We use culture to feed the inner world, and if culture in Basque is not transmitted, Euskaldunization will not be total either.

Therefore, the first trait would be the discontinuous, the second the socio-linguistic context, and the third trait is that culture has served the language. Language has been used as an empowerment tool, not as a means of communication in itself, but as a learning tool of the language. Miren Azkarate herself said that the way to promote cultural consumption in Berria was to promote the use of Euskera in the street, referring to Euskaraldia; that is, to develop the ease of speaking in Euskera means to approach culture. I believe that this logic is very wrong, because it seems that culture is outside the scope of the “use of the Basque Country”, that linguistic training is equated with the use of the street. It seems to me that the opposite is often the case, that is, you acquire capacity when you are asked for the effort, when you are opened up to new cultural expressions, etc. And it's not just because it costs you more, because it's going to arouse the interest of giving you an increasingly rich cultural world, because it's going to make you more attractive. When it comes to taking steps forward in the Basque Country, much importance has been given to language, and it is understandable, but on many occasions, especially when the administration has carried out cultural projects, it has looked at Euskaldunization, not the promotion of culture. That's why, if you're a cultural lover, you might not be interested in that, because it's done from a very didactic or a very small perspective. And if you're Euskaltzale and until then you haven't been fond of culture, maybe you don't like culture either.

This third route means that nowadays there are huge resources for the formation of language, but there are hardly any resources for cultural formation; there is no network built for it. And it must be borne in mind that in our country there have been interruptions and, therefore, many citizens have not been trained in Basque culture. Well, following the path of the bertso eskolas, the image of the school of culture comes to mind. The format of the Bertso eskolas has worked very well, as they have created networks in the regulated school, outside the regulated school, and you can train both a young man and an adult. They have shown the way very well and can be a suitable format for responding to our gap.

That gap would also have its reflection on education.

When the interruption is so profound in the end, that means that whoever does that transmission in education doesn't have the capacity either. And that's not where resources have been put. Resources have been put in place to train teachers in the rules and language of the unified Basque Country, but no means have been put in place, for example, so that a history teacher knows what resources of the Basque culture he can use to teach him, what reference, what song or film... has not been made, because there has been no awareness of it. Language is important, of course, because it is a tool for the construction of thought, but it is also important to know which cultural reference it constructs through that language. And in our case, linguistic competence has been given prominence, but not to the cultural community. It has not been taken into account that a teacher is a cultural agent, that any teacher is indirectly transmitting a cultural model.

And I think the biggest challenge we have today in Euskaldunization is that of culture. After all, Euskera will live if the cultural community and the community of speakers are compacted, not only by people’s knowledge of Euskera. I think the awareness of this has been lost, that in the 1960s it was very clear, that culture was going to revive the speaker. Because, after all, we do not have to stimulate the Basque, but the speaker. Thus, Euskaldunization can be stronger ensuring cultural transmission. Without that, from my experience and seeing, moreover, that today there was no globalization, I see no reason for someone to opt for Euskaldunizar, unless there is a symbolic world, a network of affectivity, a network of references, that allows you to live in a certain way and that you like it.

Cultural policy must be rethought, because Basque culture has been worked out from a standardisation perspective of the Basque Country and Basque cultural activity. I remember what Arantxa Iturbe said in Jakin magazine: “Reading only because it is in Basque, listening only because it is in Basque, does not increase the desire for culture, but the desire for Basque”. And, after all, we want people to have that cultural desire. And then, of course, satisfy that desire in Basque, because that's our way of expressing it.

What can schools, the education system, do in the transmission of culture and what do they do today?

Currently there are no subjects to work in the Basque culture, they are not included either in the educational decree or in the decree of Navarra. In both cases there is a single specific subject to work in a branch of Basque culture: The subject of Basque Language and Literature, at least in Secondary Education. In the rest of the ages there are art and similar subjects, but they are not expressly attached to the Basque culture. This would not be a problem if the Basque culture became a transversal line, that is, if in the subject of History, when they addressed a specific theme, they saw that particular film; or if in the subject of Nature, when they worked, they listened to that song ... It would not be a problem if there were not a Basque culture subject in itself, if it were a transversal line, and in addition the educational curriculum of the CAV would have to do so. But it's not at all. And when the Basque culture is worked, as in the subject of Literature, most of the time the biography and the book list of the author is transmitted. In other words, a collective cultural experience is not created. Cultural presences are fed, that is, the presence of the writer, the actor is fed. At most they talk to him, or they read some of his conversations, or they are told of his biography, but to our surprise, they resort very little to the texts. If you read, you read a book at home and then do a test or work. Amaia Serrano and I have worked with some teachers on the teaching of literature, and that is what we have seen; Idurre Alonso has researched it, and she has also seen that the general method to work literature in school is to work the information about bio-bibliography, and if you read at home. Therefore, there are no spaces to share the reading, this is not created; these shared cultural experiences are not structured in the school. And those cultural experiences are what serve us, among the students, to say ‘this book has served me to understand my situation’, to create interactions between them, to get to know each other, to learn to talk about themselves, to learn to communicate, to learn to discuss… And also to create cultural rituals, where you realize that talking about culture in the community brings you some contributions. That is, culture is not just individual. At the same time, the aspect of cultural interpretation is lost. Amaia Serrano and I say that reading is not the same as reading literature. When you are training in cultural communication you do not have to teach him to read, but to read literature, to listen to music, to watch theatre… We say that you have to depart from the texts, perhaps without knowing who the author is, that you have to talk in group about the themes, the sensations, the suspicions that this text generates and that this is where the cultural experience is born. In short, because every cultural text survives in every interpretation; if there is no interpretation, culture is dead. For culture to be alive, there must be as many interpretations as there are readers.

For me, above all, that's what the school has done wrong. Many times it is said, with concern, ‘my students don’t know who Mikel Laboa is’, and I don’t care about that, but I worry about putting ‘powder stars’ on him and making him unfamiliar. Sometimes you don't know who a cultural work is, but it has created a feeling, a bond with the community... And we've done the other way: to get the author to learn, but not to be linked, and then to forget them. On the contrary, we have not worked so hard on cultural experiences that can make a mark on them. Therefore, from an educational point of view, it is necessary to expand all non-literary cultural creations, and then, when disseminated, as in the case of Literature, the need to be trained in cultural interpretations or as a cultural receiver.

In regulated education, he mentioned the need to create teaching materials and resources that promote the transmission of culture, to turn the Basque culture into a cross-cutting line and to promote cultural plans. Where are we with that goal?

Very far away. I am aware that the last two, the transformation of Basque culture into a cross-cutting line and the promotion of cultural plans, are enormous challenges that require many resources. Although the curriculum indicates this, the Administration has a responsibility to do so. It is true, however, that it is very difficult to implement it in all schools. It seems to me, however, that we need to define a journey for the future, thinking about what is the most appropriate situation, and begin to take steps in the specific classes. We must assess this and improve year after year and cover areas.

The creation of didactic materials and resources seems to me to be more feasible, but this has not been the case for training in the Basque culture, nor in the literature. There are many materials for the teaching of language, but not so much for the teaching of literature, except those that do the editorials of always. I remember a network of activities in Catalonia, a space that creates material for leisure, both in culture and in literature. In this space, there are professors who teach in both high school and university and who jointly develop materials for their later filling in the network. Therefore, the first step is very feasible: after all, with didactic materials created and hung on the net, you have put a starting point. Then, training sessions, etc. may be held. But in principle, this could be done with very few resources, with the staff who already have the administration. In this sense, the Resource Center for the Teaching of the Basque Country, EIBZ, under the Government of Navarra, has launched a project that brings together writers, readers and professors, and has developed literary lists with books suitable for each age. This year we have worked on it Amaia Serrano and I, as well as writers and others who have the subject of literature, such as Patxi Zubizarreta, Xabier Etxaniz, Mari Jose Olaziregi and others. That is fine, but above all, I find another point interesting: they have asked them to make teaching materials on some books. This material has been presented to some teachers, who have used it in schools, and have subsequently met with us and told us what has been useful and what has not. They have adapted this material and made it available to users on a platform. They have seen that in Navarre they needed it to work the literature better, it has been very feasible with the existing resources, and they have managed it very well.

Therefore, the first challenge or step, that of creating material, seems to me to be quite feasible. And the other two challenges are going to be the result: if more and more material is made and that material is disseminated through training sessions, then the Basque culture is becoming a transversal line. And after that, the cultural plan can also come. In all schools there is at least one professor of Plastic, Music and Literature. It is true that there is not a very serious hiring policy, especially of Music and Plastic, it is thought that anyone can give Music or Plastic. If this is rethought and hiring someone who is trained in Plastic and Music teaching, you already have three pillars of the cultural field at school, and they three can be in charge of taking the cultural plan forward. As co-education plans have been promoted, cultural plans adapted to the needs of the school and to the socio-cultural context can be promoted. Cultural plans could be drawn up with a certain improvement in the available resources, by modifying some forms of recruitment.

In the curriculum of the Baccalaureate of the CAPV, reference is made to the proposal of the Basque curriculum; in Navarra there is no reference to the Basque curriculum, but rather to the importance of knowing the cultural diversity of Navarre. If the transmission of culture is an instrument for uniting as a people, how do they harm that cohesion?

The administrative division does not help, but neither does the way to do so. As has been said, the CAPV Decree refers to the Basque curriculum, but it is open to interpretation and each center decides its degree of development, does not follow up to know if it is complied with or not. On the other hand, there is no mention in the decree of Navarra, but the cultural competences that must be achieved are much more defined and, thanks to the sample of schools we have known, in Navarra they are better formed in cultural communication. In Navarra the curriculum gives more importance to cultural communication, cultural creation, artistic vision, knowledge of cultural heritage... And that's reflected in selectivity. In short, in the CAV and in Navarra the exams of the Euskera subject are very different. This is a language test in the CAV, and they are much more similar to those carried out in Spanish Language and Literature in Navarra. That is, it is an examination comparable to Spanish, a higher level is required. Therefore, in Navarre there are fewer Basque speakers than those who do, but those who do do so do as Castilian. And I suspect that this has no such consideration in the results of PISA, that is, that in Navarra the results are better in reading, communication, etc.

In addition, I believe that the presence in Navarra generates a new awareness among faculty and students, perhaps weaker in the CAPV. It seems to me that in the CAV in this sense we were at the same level as in the 1990s we were in the realm of feminism in terms of Euskera and Basque culture; in terms of this mirage of equality, in the mirage of normalization of Euskera. As in the 1990s laws believed that there was equality, in a whole generation, including my own, there was a relaxation around the demands of feminism, thinking that equality had been achieved. And I think in the case of the Basque Country and the Basque culture something similar happens: Given that in the CAPV this area has been won by law, by decree, it is believed that it has been won, and perhaps we lose it. This produces a certain calm awareness among people. On the other hand, in Navarre, this awareness is perceived by both professors and students. So the key is not so much what is said in the decree, but how things are done, what networks we create. Although there was a possibility that two institutions and two decrees were working together, at least by creating materials for teachers, they could help everyone.

And throughout the learning process in general, what is the place of work of culture and its transmission in Early Childhood or Primary Education?

It is true that teachers may not have been trained to do so. In short, the teachers involved in the cultural transmission are trained in the university, what is the situation of the university? That in the degrees in which mediators are formed there are no subjects of Basque culture and that Basque culture is not a cross-cutting issue. In the art degree, in the communication degree, in the education degree... there are no specific subjects of the Basque culture, nor subjects of cultural transmission and cultural teaching. And we have to think that students of these grades are going to be mediators in transmission, so to improve cultural transmission, you have to start from the first link. The first step would be to rethink the formation of these mediators. Now, from the Basque Language and Communication Department of the UPV/EHU we are considering the implementation of some subjects of Basque culture in some of the degrees in which such subjects are taught, such as the degrees of communication or arts, which seem to have seen with good eyes. However, at the university level, there is no global project that addresses it, nor does society see it as a social need. Then we say that the Basque culture is as it is, but we do not go to the first chain: How is the university in the transmission of Basque culture?

So what happens in the learning process? How do culture and transmission in Early Childhood and Primary Education work? I know the field less, I have no samples and there are more suspicions, but my impression is that in Infantil there is room for creativity and in Infantil, more or less, that space is very well seen. Creativity is well seen when you're a child, but from there it means you haven't adapted to society. In addition, the child and the child have been given a great deal of importance in the Basque Country, and that has also meant doing a great deal for the child from the point of view of Basque culture. Children's literature, songs or stories have been a lot of work. In the offer of children’s culture I see ‘but’ that many of those offered in Euskal Herria have a very didactic nuance, that there is a very explicit transmission of values. It is true that all cultural creations transmit values, but it seems to me that experimental cultural creation works less in the eyes of children. I think of Catalans and Galicians, some of their forms of theater, where there's no narrative where this is good or bad. Maybe it's a chain of experimental narrativity that creates sensations, symbols, and you stick with that and the doubts it's generated. Perhaps Dejabu and others have done more experimental things, but in general it seems to me that narrativity is the line of the didactic story, a culture in order to achieve an objective, with nothing but cultural creation, emotions, questions, more than creation to explore new codes. It's curious, because the most experimental jobs work really well with children and they're really important to be trained in a more experimental culture, because if not, they seem to have to give you everything almost chewed. Many times you don't have to understand everything, you can stay with musicality, with sen-tsaje, with the thoughts that have created you, with that new word ...

In E.I. So we work better or worse, but I think there's a tremendous gap then when we jump to FP. Theater, music, storytellers -- they're out of school, all of a sudden. The work of imagination or culture, the play with culture, seems to be a matter of boys and girls, that they have to be mature and that culture does not give them lessons, that it is not a path to knowledge. I believe that there is such a breakdown in VET.

It is true that some work has been done in the teaching of literature, and that Galtzagorri has done the most serious work in the Basque country. But there's a gap in that culture before the incorporation into Secondary Education, that border culture. For 12-14 year-olds, in general in society but also in culture, there is nothing, and they are very significant years; then you can decide what cultural habits, what cultural hobbies, what linguistic habits...

This interview was conducted through the channel that Hik Hasik has in the Plaza de ARGIA. You can find the original interview in the next link.