Data are concrete, we have a segregating school model, but what should be analyzed? Socio-economic level or origin of parents (factor used by the Basque Government)?

Clear and comprehensible data (and comparable to those of the previous year) is not easy for civil society that denounces segregation. The educational administration is not willing to provide data, because it evidences the segregationist educational policy that has been developing over the years. Segregation data is requested in many institutions, such as Parliament, in order to be able to obtain them, and yet it can take a long time for them to occur, and they are also offered in a confusing format. But you see the reality, and the dynamics of segregation are intensifying. And he started reporting 15 years ago!

You refer to the socio-economic level and the origin of fathers and mothers, and I believe that both factors must be taken into account, since both are the axes of discrimination in our society and, furthermore, intersect in the lives of many pupils and families (but not all). We know that the families' socioeconomic level is a determining factor and is linked to the students' performance. I would say that many schools and teachers have developed great sensitivity to this inequality and are trying to help them overcome that disadvantage in their activity. Others (not a few) are not involved at all in this effort, which has consequences for those people who suffer from inequality.

On the other hand, there are students who are suffering discrimination, not only because of the socioeconomic disadvantage, but also because they are seen as foreigners or “racialized”. But not only because they were born abroad, but because it seems to us to others, or because parents are foreigners. In fact, these children and young people may have been born here, but their names and surnames, their clothing, their religion or their physical characteristics, are considered foreigners here or as “racialized” and are therefore discriminated against. Some young people are not admitted to some bars or nightclubs, for example, because of their physical characteristics, even though they have money to pay tickets or drink. This is our society. There are also teachers who ask students where they are, what their name and physical characteristics are. So, they send them a clear message: we don't see you as local, and we never see you like that. So let me give you a couple of examples.

What role does the school play in structuring society? Friendship networks, relationships between people from neighborhoods and towns…

School plays an important role. On the one hand, the educational system is a reflection and product of society, but also the other way around: what happens at school directly influences society. Our education system is now binary: there are schools that respond to socio-economic, cultural and original diversity (sometimes to concentrations of poor, racialized and foreign) and others that only welcome in their classrooms native and middle- or upper-class whites, and that are a reflection of the classicist, xenophobic and contributing society.

This interity has consequences: there are children and young people who only know those who have their social characteristics; those who have privilege have never treated anyone who does not have them. Many at a disadvantage have something like this. It is a great loss in the face of social cohesion. On the other hand, the scientific literature has explained that the academic performance these students develop in the concentrations of disadvantaged students is lower than what they would obtain in a more heterogeneous environment. And in that environment, the performance of those starting from the state of advantage would be no less. Therefore, segregation is clearly contrary to equity. But if over time it increases, rather than being smaller, it will be because a large part of society – and the political representatives – do not want to change the system there is.

What elements make segregation possible?

There are schools that have ways of choosing families: the main one is the quota, that is, the amount of money that is charged each month to families. The law says compulsory education must be free, but the law is not being complied with and its political “guards” turn a blind eye. And we citizens have that payment completely naturalized, as if it were “normal.” Some actors in the concerted networks explain that the money they receive is not enough and that the amount that is missing should be charged to families. This issue needs to be clarified with diligence. On the other hand, if a school starts up complementary services and has to charge them, it is clear that it is a good way to enrich the service, to charge families and to leave out a whole social layer. The treatment of religion can also be a way to drive some families away: non-Catholic families are not well received in all Christian schools. But there are also things to improve in public schools: not everyone has the same attitude and there are schools that have a more inclusive culture than others.

The treatment of languages can also be a source of segregation, as we see. In Navarra, the English model is receiving great criticism, not only because the students in general are not getting a good level of English, but because the administration is using it in part to marginalize the Basque country; also socially because it has consequences and is not adequate or inclusive for the children of foreign families.

School competitiveness in the effort to obtain new students. How can we extract the school from that logic? Why doesn't this happen in a city's Health Centers (outpatient clinics)?

We did not choose the outpatient service: we go to the corresponding outpatient clinic. And we don't think that's bad. Why? Because of the quality of the service provided by outpatient clinics. That is what happens, after all, in Finland, right? Schools in this neighborhood and those in another neighborhood offer similar quality and then the usual way is to go to school in your neighborhood. This doesn't happen in our education system, and schools have a different prestige or image. Measures must be taken to ensure that all schools have the same quality and prestige. The situation of each centre must be analysed, but turning a blind eye to diversity should have consequences for these centres. On the contrary, there should be no centres that only have poor, racialized and foreigners.

Freedom and rights are on everyone's lips. Do we have the right to choose school? Or the obligation to provide schooling for children?

Some actors and mothers are placing the “right to choose” over all other rights, above equity and social cohesion. It is an individual and personal right, the interest of my son as a priority in this neoliberal society. Those who claim this right are, of course, those who choose segregating schools and their political representatives. Does the family have the right to choose if it does not have enough money? The freedom of some is a privilege built upon the disadvantage of others.

Not everyone believes in public school and many are suspicious of it.

Sometimes it seems that the priority is to defend the network itself for each of them. They're taking positions to show strength attitudes towards what's coming. If you say something needs to be changed, it aims to keep that network intact. Of course it is understandable. The case of the public network, on the other hand, is a little disappointing, because the network is led by the Department of Education and because it corresponds to the entire educational system; because the public school sometimes does not feel that the priority of the Department of Education is the public school, nor that it is the support of disadvantaged families and students. Let's see what happens to LOMLOE. It seems that the intention to address the issue is related to this new law, but we have to see how far that purpose actually reaches and, above all, how it is to be managed from the Basque administration. At the moment, the collection of quotas is not legal, and the Basque administration is turning a blind eye.

What measures can be taken to reduce segregation in the legislative projects under way (state, Basque, Navarro…)?

We'll see. The CAV announced the development of a new education law, which could come out in the coming years. Current legislation provides that compulsory education must be free of charge. Do we need another law to say the same thing? What's happening is that the law is not being enforced because our rulers, and part of society, don't want it. Various plans have been made to care for immigrant students (in the CAPV we have the fifth, although in the title it is said to be the second) and see what these plans have served: segregation has increased, while plans that speak against segregation remain in place. As for segregation, at this time we need committed educational policies; less paper, reports, documents and letters and more actions. I no longer listen to the plans, because paper holds everything, reality will tell us whether policies are being made or not.